Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder why all of the Ba'ul fighters were piloted by Kelpiens.

It could simply be that the Ba'ul refused to help. This would make sense, as IIRC the first contact between the Ba'ul and the Federation did not go well (when the Archimedes first entered the Kaminar system to pick up Saru, the Ba'ul angrily tried to force them to leave).

I mean, I would hate to think that the Kelpiens really did exterminate the Ba'ul. Because that would mean that the Ba'ul were right all along in imposing the "Great Balance".

 

[Discofan]

There are a few viviparous sharks whose eggs hatch inside their bodies, blue sharks most famously.

That's not the same thing. There isn't an umbilical cord linking them to the little ones.

In mammals, the babies share their metabolism with their mother.

 

[SJGardner]

Essentially it happened like this.

"Who the f**k are they supposed to be" when I saw the Klingons in the pilot.
then
"What the hell is that supposed to be" when I saw the battlecruisers.

Then I saw the BoP and crashed.

I do have trouble with anticipating emotional reactions from others, but as DS9 is my personal sacred cow, it's definitely some food for thought and will help me a great deal in understanding these issues from Season 1. I still remember the fun I had theorycrafting about the make-up being a gene therapy experiment gone wrong, in an attempt to reverse the damage of the augment virus. Especially with the mental image of Kor, Kang and Koloth looking at the end result, saying "Gre'thor no" and walking away, deciding to wait for the final version. But in the end, the facial hair helped a lot.

 

[Fateor]

No. Clearly you missed all the episodes where characters can understand and use alien computer systems without even understanding the written language.

You seem to be forgetting about the Universal Translator.

There's only so much a device like that can do unless it's also tapping into the users optic nerves and providing visual translation. If it's doing that that's invasive tech.

Or... You know... It's a contact like device they have over one or both of their eyes that overlays the translation of any text they see like the universal translator in their ears do for any spoken language.

 

[Discofan]

I wonder why all of the Ba'ul fighters were piloted by Kelpiens.

Did the Ba'ul simply refuse to help (IIRC, the Ba'ul refused all attempts at contact when Starfleet first got to the Kaminar system, so the Ba'ul are not ever likely to be friendly to the Federation), or did the Kelpiens wipe them out, just as the Ba'ul were afraid they would?

I think the Kelpiens are superior to the Ba'ul in every way. Which is why it was so easy for Saru to use their own technology against them. The Kelpiens probably just took the ships and the Ba'ul were incapable to resist them.

 

[oberth]

You seem to be forgetting about the Universal Translator.

does it 'translate' kahless OS into ms windows 203?

 

[SJGardner]

That's not the same thing. There isn't an umbilical cord linking them to the little ones.

In mammals, the babies share their metabolism with their mother.

I think it's now rather about how literal McCoy was with "like mammals". Because the lizards I've mentioned were reproducing the same way as the sharks did. He could've simply meant live birth akin to those Earth species, or a full placental reproduction. I admit I never gave it much thought. Cardassians, another pseudo-reptilian species on the other hand... no, I'd rather not think of those fanfics. Bad SJGardner, Bad!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Kelpiens probably just took the ships and the Ba'ul were incapable to resist them.

I don't see why the Kelpiens would necessarily be any better at piloting the Ba'ul fighters as the Ba'ul themselves would be. The Ba'ul aren't stupid, after all.

At the end of "Such Sweet Sorrow", Siranna and the other Kelpiens seemed intent on seeking a peaceful coexistence between the Kelpiens and the Ba'ul. So either that all went horribly wrong and the Kelpiens exterminated the Ba'ul after all, or (more likely) the Ba'ul simply let the Kelpiens go, saying "Fine, take the fighters, see if we care".

Perhaps this is how the Kelpiens learned to pilot the fighters - the Ba'ul taught them.

 

[oberth]

I think it's now rather about how literal McCoy was with "like mammals". Because the lizards I've mentioned were reproducing the same way as the sharks did. He could've simply meant live birth akin to those Earth species, or a full placental reproduction. I admit I never gave it much thought. Cardassians, another pseudo-reptilian species on the other hand... no, I'd rather not think of those fanfics. Bad SJGardner, Bad!

wouldn't any more details from mccoy be considerred technobabble in the 60s?

 

[SJGardner]

I don't see why the Kelpiens would necessarily be any better at piloting the Ba'ul fighters as the Ba'ul themselves would be. The Ba'ul aren't stupid, after all.

At the end of "Such Sweet Sorrow", Siranna and the other Kelpiens seemed intent on seeking a peaceful coexistence between the Kelpiens and the Ba'ul. So either that all went horribly wrong and the Kelpiens exterminated the Ba'ul after all, or (more likely) the Ba'ul simply let the Kelpiens go, saying "Fine, take the fighters, see if we care".

Perhaps this is how the Kelpiens learned to pilot the fighters - the Ba'ul taught them.

Was it ever stated on screen that all fighters were piloted by Kelpiens? I only remember seeing Siranna.

 

[Gonzo]

I do have trouble with anticipating emotional reactions from others, but as DS9 is my personal sacred cow, it's definitely some food for thought and will help me a great deal in understanding these issues from Season 1. I still remember the fun I had theorycrafting about the make-up being a gene therapy experiment gone wrong, in an attempt to reverse the damage of the augment virus. Especially with the mental image of Kor, Kang and Koloth looking at the end result, saying "Gre'thor no" and walking away, deciding to wait for the final version. But in the end, the facial hair helped a lot.

Everybody has their own red lines, I was fine with most of the changes but there just didnt seem to be a good reason to change what are by now one of the most iconic species and starship designs in Star Trek, rivalling even the Starfleet ships in some cases.

Its not that it happened that was the problem as such it was just that there was no need for it and they gained nothing by it, the big battle in the pilot would have been so much better with recognisable Klingon ships even if it was only D5's or D6's.

I would have been fine if it had been a by product of the Klingons trying to restore what was lost but it wasnt and felt like it was done just for the hell of it.

I would have felt the same if they had changed any of the established races even the somewhat more isolationist species like the Cardassians as their ships have an iconic style of their own.

To me the Klingon ships looked like the run of the mill ship of the week that we used to get on Voyager and even that is unfair to the Voyager show as some of the designs were great.

The worst kind of errors are those that are unforced.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Was it ever stated on screen that all fighters were piloted by Kelpiens? I only remember seeing Siranna.

Siranna says something like "Kelpien warriors, prepare for battle".

I guess the Ba'ul are just too isolationist to help in a situation like this. They don't care about anything that happens outside their system. So they may have been willing to let the Kelpiens do it for them.

It simply doesn't make sense that the Kelpiens would wipe out the Ba'ul anyway, because (if Siranna is any indication) they did seem to want the two races to live in peace.

 

[Discofan]

I think the main problem with Ba'ul technology is that it must be dripping with the black goo covering their bodies. Do we know if they are related to Armus?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

But imagine the opportunities to redesign their look!

Now with 25% more lobe™!!!

 

[SJGardner]

Now with 25% more lobe™!!!

Which would only mean Rom would look like Grand Nagus Gint (shared actor and all...)

 

[Discofan]

One thing that I find a little strange is that we're told that 2000 years earlier the Kelpiens nearly wiped out the Ba'ul. The Kelpiens, are strong, fast and visibly superior to the Ba'ul in every way, including intellectual. Who among us can learn a hundred languages in a few years?

So, can anyone tell me how the nearly extinct, weak and helpless Ba'ul were able to develop superior technology, overcome the Kelpiens and turn them into backward submissive superstitious serfs?

 

[Mr. Nova]

Which makes absolutely no sense! The Talosians kidnapped Colt to be a potential mate for Pike in order to propagate his species -- which won't work if the female part of the equation is a red, spiky-faced alien! Why they would make this kind of ridiculous change when the Enterprise crew will be gone at the end of the season anyway is beyond me. I suppose if there is a Pike spin-off at some point, they could recast the role properly, seen as how the alien woman was never addressed on screen as Colt (or by any name for that matter).

Maybe a crisis-level case of acne?

 

[SJGardner]

Maybe a crisis-level case of acne?

... or a dangerous but non-lethal level of absorbed Delta radiation? Those Talosians have a really cruel and sick sense of humor.

 

[Alan Roi]

... or a dangerous but non-lethal level of absorbed Delta radiation? Those Talosians have a really cruel and sick sense of humor.

Honestly, who knows what makes a Talosian laugh. And who wants to? Also, we know Pike already has a kink for the green ladies. Who knows what other freaky stuff he's got in that head of his. Oh wait. Now that makes me WANT a Pike series

 

[SJGardner]

Honestly, who knows what makes a Talosian laugh. And who wants to? Also, we know Pike already has a kink for the green ladies. Who knows what other freaky stuff he's got in that head of his. Oh wait. Now that makes me WANT a Pike series

You're damn right. That's the last thing I'll ever want to know. Unless they find TrekBBS member SJGardner drinking beer and listening to 80s classic Rock and Synthpop with Sylvia Tilly the most hilarious thing ever. Then they have the best sense of humor in the known universe and I'm all for it. Pike and Vina can join in if they know the lyrics to Dancing With Tears In My Eyes. We have an internet connection if they don't.