Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Michael]

The same instinct that had him tell Burnham not to risk trying to catch him from crashing into an asteroid, the same instinct that had him jumping on a phaser about to go off, the same instinct that had him demand to pilot the shuttle into the temporal swirl, the same instinct that compelled him to accept the time crystal and the same instinct had him complain to Cornwell about being left out of the war every time he could bring it up. That instinct. its not about his thoughts, its about who he is as a person on the most fundamental of levels.

That‘s all nice and well and I get all that, but we do agree that a sacrifice in that situation would have meant his death, right? Ergo, since he knew he wouldn‘t and couldn‘t die, there would have been no sacrifice.

I don‘t know, you really let me doubt myself understanding the concept of sacrifice.

 

[Jadeb]

That crossed my mind as well - on a ship of 400 people, the three (cause Number One was there too) highest-ranking people race off the bridge to press their faces into the live torpedo.

But you know that Kirk and Spock would have been rushing to do the exact same thing. Only Sisko seems to really understand how delegation works.

At least Scotty would have shown up on the bridge with his dead nephew or something. But, no, Discovery has no chief engineer or anyone who might be remotely qualified to deal with the situation. Straight to the psychiatrist.

The scene would have made more sense had they stuck to the skeleton crew idea, but Discovery loves more, more, more.

 

[cultcross]

Neither the captain nor an admiral (who is a psychiatrist, mind) should be dealing with the torpedo situation in the first place, in my book.

Oh I completely agree. Neither should Kirk have gone to the deflector. Leads are often unnecessarily heroic

 

[Alan Roi]

That‘s all nice and well and I get all that, but we do agree that a sacrifice in that situation would have meant his death, right? Ergo, since he knew he wouldn‘t and couldn‘t die, there would have been no sacrifice.

I don‘t know, you really let me doubt myself understanding the concept of sacrifice.

Have you never done something that you knew you shouldn't? That was the basis of my argument.

 

[oberth]

At least Scotty would have shown up on the bridge with his dead nephew or something. But, no, Discovery has no chief engineer or anyone who might be remotely qualified to deal with the situation. Straight to the psychiatrist.

The scene would have made more sense had they stuck to the skeleton crew idea, but Discovery loves more, more, more.

it was the enterprise - and she sure as hell has a chief engineer

 

[oberth]

Oh I completely agree. Neither should Kirk have gone to the deflector. Leads are often unnecessarily heroic

wonder where that comes from

 

[Stephen!]

This seems to have rather thrown a spanner in the works, since Trek BBS has the Discovery forum in a "2151 - 2270" section, but now it's not.

 

[Jadeb]

it was the enterprise - and she sure as hell has a chief engineer

That's right -- there's not even the skeleton crew excuse. All the redshirts are busy, I guess. Or maybe they need to save their sacrifice for later, like Pike.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Just watched today and damn, another 10 for me. Too much to try and comment on.

But the only decent Admiral I think we've ever seen on Star Trek and not just because of her sacrifice.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I could only go a "7" on the season 2 finale, and I feel bad about that.

The most condemning thing I can say is that when "Such Sweet Sorrow Part II" ended I wanted to go with Captain Pike and the Enterprise crew and felt the story of the Discovery was now adequately told. The fact Captain Pike now knows his fate and continues to be an exemplary Starfleet officer and human being is fascinating in the depth it adds and if a substantial number of other viewers feel likewise could reveal that bringing Pike and the Enterprise into the mix to be a mistake as the supporting cast eclipses the main cast. It will be interesting to see what unfolds between S2 and S3.

Favorite scene without a doubt was Georgiou taking a twisted girlish glee in watching Leland meet his end.

Two segments of Space battle was a bit tedious, for me, with Spock and Burnham's "Final Goodbye XVII" being the very definition of "superfluous."

I still believe "Such Sweet Sorrow" (With Part 1 being roughly 50 minutes and Part II being around 65 minutes for a total of 115 minutes) would have played better as one movie length episode of around 90 minutes. It would have forced them to tighten things up, hopefully, excise the dramatically redundant scenes, and developing a better rhythm and pacing to the story.

I am going to re-watch again.

 

[Amasov]

One thing in the finale that wasn't clear to me is how many of Discovery's crew actually stayed aboard. Pike said something to Bryce about confirming all of those who want to get off, but, from what we saw, it looks as if the entirety of Discovery's compliment remained.

 

[oberth]

One thing in the finale that wasn't clear to me is how many of Discovery's crew actually stayed aboard. Pike said something to Bryce about confirming all of those who want to get off, but, from what we saw, it looks as if the entire Discovery remained.

that only makes for a speedier evacuation

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I could only go a "7" on the season 2 finale, and I feel bad about that.

The most condemning thing I can say is that when "Such Sweet Sorrow Part II" ended I wanted to go with Captain Pike and the Enterprise crew and felt the story of the Discovery was now adequately told. The fact Captain Pike now knows his fate and continues to be an exemplary Starfleet officer and human being is fascinating in the depth it adds and if a substantial number of other viewers feel likewise could reveal that bringing Pike and the Enterprise into the mix to be a mistake as the supporting cast eclipses the main cast. It will be interesting to see what unfolds between S2 and S3.

Favorite scene without a doubt was Georgiou taking a twisted girlish glee in watching Leland meet his end.

Two segments of Space battle was a bit tedious, for me, with Spock and Burnham's "Final Goodbye XVII" being the very definition of "superfluous."

I still believe "Such Sweet Sorrow" (With Part 1 being roughly 50 minutes and Part II being around 65 minutes for a total of 115 minutes) would have played better as one movie length episode of around 90 minutes. It would have forced them to tighten things up, hopefully, excise the dramatically redundant scenes, and developing a better rhythm and pacing to the story.

I am going to re-watch again.

One wonders what will happen in a season 3. Per Calypso, the ship gets abandoned at some point, but S3 would be pretty boring with the crew living on Terralysium, so they must fly around for a while before leaving the ship.

 

[Michael]

Not to belabor the point, but I guess the Pike/Cornwell scene rubs me the wrong way, because to me it makes Pike look kinda selfish and cowardly to let the good admiral die when – and again, I might have misunderstood something – he had to know he would not have died.

 

[Amasov]

I did like the finale a lot. I truly did. It left me with a few questions, but, I'm currently going back through the season just to confirm what lingering questions I have had already been addressed.

The biggest one I have is about Discovery, herself. While I understand why they were unable to destroy it using the self-destruct and the Enterprise torpedoes due the sphere data was protecting itself, but this week, it's getting the tar ripped out of it from battle. Was the sphere data not protecting itself any longer? I hope I didn't miss something, because if I did, I don't feel like it was addressed properly.

There are times, and it could be me, that I feel like the show explains things at such breakneck speed that it's very easy to miss something. And it's always a very important plot point.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Yes.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Actually, no. I think I don't agree...and still don't care.

 

[Alan Roi]

I did like the finale a lot. I truly did. It left me with a few questions, but, I'm currently going back through the seasons just to confirm what lingering questions I have had already been addressed.

The biggest one I have is about Discovery, herself. What I don't understand is why they were unable to destroy it using the self-destruct and the Enterprise torpedoes because the sphere data was protecting itself. But in part 2, it's getting the tar ripped out of it from battle. Was the sphere data not protecting itself any longer? I hope I didn't miss something, because if I did, I don't feel like it was addressed properly.

That torpedo attack only existed in Micheal's vision. If you watch carefully you can see exactly where the vision starts and ends with Saru saying 'That's impossible' and the two lines from Pike and his Helmswoman repeating them exactly.

 

[Kemaiku]

The biggest one I have is about Discovery, herself. What I don't understand is why they were unable to destroy it using the self-destruct and the Enterprise torpedoes because the sphere data was protecting itself. But in part 2, it's getting the tar ripped out of it from battle. Was the sphere data not protecting itself any longer? I hope I didn't miss something, because if I did, I don't feel like it was addressed properly.

The ship is aware enough to know the Enterprise is protecting it, that the crew came back to do the same, and that Burnham is making the suit to save it. Notice how they suddenly have so much power to the engines the minute they need to haul it towards the wormhole.

And that it was anticipating Georgious tactics and helping her lure Leland to the spore chamber to kill him.

 

[Amasov]

Yeah, see, case in point I suppose. Sometimes I just miss things and it frustrates me.

 

[Starflight]

That's a point - why did Burnham stop the Enterprise from firing on Discovery? The way I read it was that she concluded that her vision with the bridge crew being shot would only come true if they opened fire on Discovery, but the vision came true anyway. If they had fired on Discovery until it was destroyed, surely then the vision wouldn't have come true because it relied on the battle in which Leland-Control boarded the ship to find the data. Was Burnham just well wrong on that one?