I'd like Lorca to come back in some form, just to see Isaacs again. His performance was great.
Poll Pike vs Lorca
- Thread starter ITDUDE
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Pike, simply because it‘s so easy to root for him, even in situations where I disagree with his a decision.
With Lorca, I almost constantly wanted him to get pegged down a notch.
The most interesting thing about him, was his complete opposite characterization of Burnham.
With Lorca, I almost constantly wanted him to get pegged down a notch.
The most interesting thing about him, was his complete opposite characterization of Burnham.
I like Georgiou as well, but I voted for Pike
Lorca is cool
Pike is awesome
Georgiou is hot, evil hot
What do you say about Hell on Wheels? Is it worthy?
I've seen Mount's amazing acting first in Inhumans and damned this failed show which had no continue. Now I think, if Mount was engaged in next seasons of Inhumans, he could have no time for Pike's role in Discovery.
Actually I hope Marvel will understand what they lost.
I suspect Prime Lorca will factor into season three.
What do you say about Hell on Wheels? Is it worthy?
I've seen Mount's amazing acting first in Inhumans and damned this failed show which had no continue. Now I think, if Mount was engaged in next seasons of Inhumans, he could have no time for Pike's role in Discovery.
Actually I hope Marvel will understand what they lost.
I myself was only able to keep going so far with Hell on Wheels before I felt I'd had enough and off after season 3 ended, and Mount wasn't one of the actors that kept me interested. Meany and Heyerdahl were much more compelling, IMHO. I will also warn that its extremely slow going.
I think it is entertaining. Though I'm also interested in that period of history. I'm sure, like many things, it is a "mileage may vary" kinda thing.
I've found the pacing better than what Discovery has offered up to this point. But I find pacing is one of the major flaws of Discovery.
I love both equally and if this was star trek TNG (BEST TREK SHOW EVER) I would not vote but this is discovery, it is far from the best trek so I will go with Locca.
Pike is excellent but discovery as a show is far from great so a character like Locca that was mysterious, grey and unexpected was best suited for discovery because it elevated the show's story telling.
Also Locca was a better counterpart to a very mixed to somewhat unlikeable character like michael burnham. whereas Pike is just Pike. he can work anywhere. discovery needed characters like Locca more due to how unlikebale Burnham can be written
Pike is excellent but discovery as a show is far from great so a character like Locca that was mysterious, grey and unexpected was best suited for discovery because it elevated the show's story telling.
Also Locca was a better counterpart to a very mixed to somewhat unlikeable character like michael burnham. whereas Pike is just Pike. he can work anywhere. discovery needed characters like Locca more due to how unlikebale Burnham can be written
Thanks for your answer!
Hah, you're right, Discovery is sometimes too fast (I don't mean scenes with Burnham). Not enough time to look in details at most of characters, including even Spock, it's annoying.
I can't decide. I love them both.
I think Pike is one of the genuine best Trek Captains we had in the whole franchise so far.
Yes, he is very close to a 50s space hero / boyscout leader good guy, whereas Lorca was more the "dark, mystical, complex" character (pre-reveal) that is more expected from modern longform television. That's also why the introduction of Pike clashed a bit with the tone of the show for some.
But I think that was great. And that's the type of heroes we need in the present.
Yes, he is very close to a 50s space hero / boyscout leader good guy, whereas Lorca was more the "dark, mystical, complex" character (pre-reveal) that is more expected from modern longform television. That's also why the introduction of Pike clashed a bit with the tone of the show for some.
But I think that was great. And that's the type of heroes we need in the present.
Tough call, but I'd give the edge to Lorca just because his dark and edgy persona (at least before we learned the truth) was so unique and different from what we were used to in a Trek captain. And it was also just hilarious watching his deadpan reactions to the bubbly Tilly or complete disinterest in things like the space whale in Sanest Man. 
Pike was great, but more of a typical, noble starship captain who always does the right thing and has an inspiring speech to give.
Pike was great, but more of a typical, noble starship captain who always does the right thing and has an inspiring speech to give.
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Personally I really loved the twist itself, I just wish they had kept him the same interesting and complex man and explored how the experience might have changed him over time, instead of suddenly turning him into this one-dimensional, cartoon villain who was simply putting on an act the whole time.
That's the only part of it I found disappointing. Although that said, he did still make for a pretty effective villain in those last couple episodes.
To me, Lorca lost 75% of his appeal the moment it was revealed he only had different values from Starfleet because he was from the MU.
A guy within Starfleet adopts an ends justify the means attitude toward protecting the realm: Interesting.
A guy is evil because he's from the MU: Boring.
A guy within Starfleet adopts an ends justify the means attitude toward protecting the realm: Interesting.
A guy is evil because he's from the MU: Boring.
I went with Lorca despite they terrible reveal. Also he wasn't just a a means justify the ends type of guy or that wasn't the only thing he had going. He was also emotionally vunerable suffering from war trauma. It looked like he was going to have depth and was going to be more "The Punisher" than Arnold in something like "Predator."
Pike has been fine but like mentioned has been to much of a pushover and didn't really have much going on inside until near the end when he got to see a glimpse of his future. That was the characters best moment and I wish they had showed it early in the season so it would have added a extra level of subtext for the character for most of the season. Him knowing his fate but still having to carry on with the mission or maybe he will be tempted to sabatoge things so he doesn't end up in that chair. It would have added lots IMO.
Jason
Pike has been fine but like mentioned has been to much of a pushover and didn't really have much going on inside until near the end when he got to see a glimpse of his future. That was the characters best moment and I wish they had showed it early in the season so it would have added a extra level of subtext for the character for most of the season. Him knowing his fate but still having to carry on with the mission or maybe he will be tempted to sabatoge things so he doesn't end up in that chair. It would have added lots IMO.
Jason
I voted Pike, but it was close:
I would argue Pike was the better captain and probably more enjoyable to watch from a traditional Star Trek storytelling standpoint, since he was the more traditional, classic captain who demonstrated that he cared for his crew and is clearly willing to sacrifice everything for them. I also love the emotional depth the character was given by Anson Mount.
That said, Lorca is one of the best sometimes anti-hero, sometimes straight up villains since Khan. He poses as the captain and even fools Lorca's own friends such as admiral Cornwell. He makes very morally questionable decisions and repeatedly puts the crew at risk, but is able to veil it just enough in arguments of "the greater good" that he continually has the crew doing his bidding. I would argue he is not a simply "mustache-twirling" villain specifically because he does play in a very grey area with the crew for the majority of the series. Even once he is back in the mirror universe, it is really up until the final one or two episodes of the series that the crew (and audience) realize just how much they have been played by this character. He uses humor, the crew's desire for peace, and even the illusion of self-sacrifice to further his aims. He also does genuinely help Discovery learn how to defeat the Klingon cloak even if it is only a side effect of his true aims.
I would argue Pike was the better captain and probably more enjoyable to watch from a traditional Star Trek storytelling standpoint, since he was the more traditional, classic captain who demonstrated that he cared for his crew and is clearly willing to sacrifice everything for them. I also love the emotional depth the character was given by Anson Mount.
That said, Lorca is one of the best sometimes anti-hero, sometimes straight up villains since Khan. He poses as the captain and even fools Lorca's own friends such as admiral Cornwell. He makes very morally questionable decisions and repeatedly puts the crew at risk, but is able to veil it just enough in arguments of "the greater good" that he continually has the crew doing his bidding. I would argue he is not a simply "mustache-twirling" villain specifically because he does play in a very grey area with the crew for the majority of the series. Even once he is back in the mirror universe, it is really up until the final one or two episodes of the series that the crew (and audience) realize just how much they have been played by this character. He uses humor, the crew's desire for peace, and even the illusion of self-sacrifice to further his aims. He also does genuinely help Discovery learn how to defeat the Klingon cloak even if it is only a side effect of his true aims.
Couldn't agree more. Pike is one of the best depictions of a good leader that Trek has ever done. Melding a lot of what made previous captains good into one character without coming across as unrealistic or irritatingly saintly. He was a great creation as a fictional leader.
My (and I cringe appropriately as I write this) leadership training would hold Pike up as a shining example. He cares about his crew as people, is a good decision maker, empathetic and warm, principled but not authoritarian, knowledgeable but trusting of his crew's abilities, and genuinely appreciative of diversity.
Yup. Lorca was a great character (Isaacs' performance just made him) but it's now hard for me to look back at him without the knowledge of the stupidity to come tainting my view. I was fascinated by the idea of a Starfleet Captain who was brave and mission orientated, but who had a warped philosophy of the ends justifying the means. He wasn't just plain selfish (flying into the path of fire aimed at the Gagarin) but was willing to bend the rules more than most ever would. Especially on a show where the Captain isn't the main character, he was great. But then the fan absurdity that you can't be grey in the Trek universe without being a MU duplicate turned out to be true, and I lost interest in the character. He ceased to be compelling and much of the misdirect from earlier started not to make sense (why was Lorca so bravely mission orientated in the PU if his goal was to get home and take the Empire?). I don't mind a twist, but I hate being lied to by a writer to make a misdirect work, and that's how I feel Lorca went down. Plus, the stupid burned.
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