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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x12 - "Through the Valley of Shadows"

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Seems Star Trek's thing for "Mordor" and religious architecture has been around for quite some time, even before Peter Jackson brought LOTR to the big screen (to think!).

iu


rightfulheir037.jpg
Pike was basically a fantasy hero rescuing a princess from an ogre in that one. :lol:
 
I certainly don't mind 'fantasy' architecture. It is perfectly fine, especially for alien planets.
 
Spock pulled a Mirror Archer-with-the-Gorn with the Control nanites by magnetizing the gravplating. It was something practically straight out of the steel plant confrontation at the end of T2 but it worked in this case.
 
I saw that. I was glad to see that the Klingon text retained the Movie and Berman Era coloration scheme for Klingon lettering seen on a readout.
 
The possibility of teleportation was mentioned in the 1960s outside of Star Trek, and there have been various experiments showing that the state of a particle (not the particle itself) can be teleported. At this time there's no possibility of teleportation of living things - see www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/09/big-step-quantum-teleportation-won-t-bring-us-any-closer-star-trek-here-s-why - but who's to say what will be implausible 100 years from now?
I believe however that it's been stated in some of those articles that given the amount of particles in the Human body it would take DECADES to first scan disassemble and reassemble a transported body of a human were it possible in the first place even at nanosecond processing speeds.
^^^
Thus yes, while possible (assuming all the other technical hurdles were met - it seems it would never be practical.
 
Solid episode overall, much improved from the previous couple of weeks. A good pair of writers (Kim and Lippoldt) really does make a difference. Most of the shortcomings seem to have involved plot elements they were stuck having to move forward (so not their fault)... still, the execution was strong.

Just so I'm clear, though... pretty much everyone here was wondering last week "if they can't delete the sphere data, why don't they just scuttle the ship?", no? I couldn't help being reminded of it when Saru was expositing about the dilemma (with anvils) early in this episode. Yet somehow, no one on board actually floated the idea until after they were surrounded, at which point doing it had become exponentially more risky?

(And (of course) it was Michael who finally suggested it, as apparently neither Pike nor anyone else had a sufficient grasp of the obvious.)

Speaking of being surrounded... apparently Control's capabilities have shifted (again) as the plot requires. Three episodes ago we were led to believe it was constrained to the space station (except when it had a human host); now apparently it can hop around freely taking over starships? (And thirty of them?... how many ships does S31 have, anyway? And if it can do that, why would Control limit itself to S31 ships? Why not take over Discovery's systems the same way? Or heck, why not all of Starfleet?)

Meanwhile, I'm very much of the same mind as many other posters about the "pew pew" phasers. Whatever happened to vaporizing things? Why are phasers the one solitary branch of tech where DSC is less advanced than what we've seen in previous Trek?

Likewise the same mind as many others about "time crystals." The more they make these a crucial plot element, the more they insult the audience's intelligence.

I'm of two minds about the vision on Boreth. It was visually and dramatically fantastic. Pike's willingness to face his future, no matter what? Courageous and compelling. Pike knowing about that future, and yet making no apparent attempt to change it? (Or being unable to, if one believes the monk, not that there's any reason to?) That drains a lot of the drama right out of things, not just now but for years to come.

(The presentation of the training cruise scene left me underwhelmed, too. I was expecting Pike's actions to be a little more overtly rescue-y, per Mendez's original dialogue: "He went in bringing out all those kids that were still alive." And IMHO the melting face moment was a needless gross-out.)

Loved the dining room scene, FWIW! Especially the word game. Ditto Reno's later conversation with Culber. Moments like these are where the writing really shines.

Anyway, overall, to philosophize for a moment, it strikes me as interesting how systematically the Trek franchise has differentiated itself from "our" future, by systematically ruling out all the major technology trends that seem likely to shape the generations to come. In the TNG era it was genetic engineering that was verbotten; now (backdated to TOS) we see nanotech and strong AI being treated as too dangerous to countenance. It's almost as if the Trek universe is being whittled down to only the "magic" kind of tech that's beyond real physics (FTL, teleportation, time travel).
 
Harry Mudd seems to be the only person who ever found out the phaser had a third "yellow" setting and used a beam to vapourise Lorca. Then again, he did it during a time crystal jump so no one remembers that it goes to 3.

The thing has 3 chambers though...I don't know, the people writing this don't have a clue either.
 
When I saw the wheelchair at first I thought, “oh look, it’s Davros”, and then I remembered what I was watching. :)
From the flashback it does look like Pike didn’t save anyone. He just told some to leave, went to one who fell and the door closed on him. I prefer the novel version. Was more herioc.
 
Solid episode overall, much improved from the previous couple of weeks. A good pair of writers (Kim and Lippoldt) really does make a difference. Most of the shortcomings seem to have involved plot elements they were stuck having to move forward (so not their fault)... still, the execution was strong.

I'm of two minds about the vision on Boreth. It was visually and dramatically fantastic. Pike's willingness to face his future, no matter what? Courageous and compelling. Pike knowing about that future, and yet making no apparent attempt to change it? (Or being unable to, if one believes the monk, not that there's any reason to?) That drains a lot of the drama right out of things, not just now but for years to come.
I have a bit of a theory. We're told in the Menagerie that Pike was injured in an inspection tour. Nothing about a training exercise.

The scene on Boreth looked like a training exercise, not an inspection tour.

I suppose there's wiggle room they could be one and the same. But what if they're not?

Pike refuses to do any training exercises as a result of his vision. But he's fine with inspection tours (why wouldn't he be)?

He thus averts getting injured in a training exercise and ends up getting injured in an inspection tour per the Menagerie. His attempt to avert the training exercise injury just causes the same injury via inspection tour instead.
 
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but not only did Disco Pike yell out in horror and pain, so too did beep-beep Pike. Wonder if wheelchair bound, disfigured Pike saw himself as a strapping younger man in the past who just saw HIM as a physical vegetable and then decided well, it's off to Talos IV I go...

Beep beep Pike was thinking 'I should have left that damn crystal at Boreth' or better yet 'Why did I not insist they cancel the training exercise?' Sorry going ahead with the training exercise knowing something terrible will happen is stupid. Archer, Lorca, Picard, Kirk, Sisko, and Janeway would have made changes to the timeline. St Pike was injured unnecessarily.

I have a bit of a theory. We're told in the Menagerie that Pike was injured in an inspection tour. Nothing about a training exercise.

The scene on Boreth looked like a training exercise, not an inspection tour.

I suppose there's wiggle room they could be one and the same. But what if they're not?

Pike refuses to do any training exercises as a result of his vision. But he's fine with inspection tours (why wouldn't he be)?

He thus averts getting injured in a training exercise and ends up getting injured in an inspection tour per the Menagerie. His attempt to avert the training exercise injury just causes the same injury via inspection tour instead.

Ok ,so he is doomed to be seriously injured and end up in the beep beep box. His own personal Kobayashi Maru
 
Solid episode overall, much improved from the previous couple of weeks. A good pair of writers (Kim and Lippoldt) really does make a difference. Most of the shortcomings seem to have involved plot elements they were stuck having to move forward (so not their fault)... still, the execution was strong.

Just so I'm clear, though... pretty much everyone here was wondering last week "if they can't delete the sphere data, why don't they just scuttle the ship?", no? I couldn't help being reminded of it when Saru was expositing about the dilemma (with anvils) early in this episode. Yet somehow, no one on board actually floated the idea until after they were surrounded, at which point doing it had become exponentially more risky?

(And (of course) it was Michael who finally suggested it, as apparently neither Pike nor anyone else had a sufficient grasp of the obvious.)

Speaking of being surrounded... apparently Control's capabilities have shifted (again) as the plot requires. Three episodes ago we were led to believe it was constrained to the space station (except when it had a human host); now apparently it can hop around freely taking over starships? (And thirty of them?... how many ships does S31 have, anyway? And if it can do that, why would Control limit itself to S31 ships? Why not take over Discovery's systems the same way? Or heck, why not all of Starfleet?)

Meanwhile, I'm very much of the same mind as many other posters about the "pew pew" phasers. Whatever happened to vaporizing things? Why are phasers the one solitary branch of tech where DSC is less advanced than what we've seen in previous Trek?

Likewise the same mind as many others about "time crystals." The more they make these a crucial plot element, the more they insult the audience's intelligence.

I'm of two minds about the vision on Boreth. It was visually and dramatically fantastic. Pike's willingness to face his future, no matter what? Courageous and compelling. Pike knowing about that future, and yet making no apparent attempt to change it? (Or being unable to, if one believes the monk, not that there's any reason to?) That drains a lot of the drama right out of things, not just now but for years to come.

(The presentation of the training cruise scene left me underwhelmed, too. I was expecting Pike's actions to be a little more overtly rescue-y, per Mendez's original dialogue: "He went in bringing out all those kids that were still alive." And IMHO the melting face moment was a needless gross-out.)

Loved the dining room scene, FWIW! Especially the word game. Ditto Reno's later conversation with Culber. Moments like these are where the writing really shines.

Anyway, overall, to philosophize for a moment, it strikes me as interesting how systematically the Trek franchise has differentiated itself from "our" future, by systematically ruling out all the major technology trends that seem likely to shape the generations to come. In the TNG era it was genetic engineering that was verbotten; now (backdated to TOS) we see nanotech and strong AI being treated as too dangerous to countenance. It's almost as if the Trek universe is being whittled down to only the "magic" kind of tech that's beyond real physics (FTL, teleportation, time travel).
As far as CONTROL and the S-31 starships goes...
I would imagine that if it can send Itself back a few centuries in time and be able to jab Leland in the eye moments after arriving...,
Taking over (and spacing the crews of) a bunch of S-31 ships that already have an older version of Itself in their computer systems, probably isn't all that complicated.
:techman:
 
Pike is going to think he’s invincible now. That was a plot point in another tv show but I don’t recall which one.
 
That can be applied to any planet with a "game changing" piece of tech/material: Guardian of Forever, Scalos, Exo III, Mudd's Planet, Platonius...

There are some instances above I agree with, others I don't. The details aren't important about which is which (also someone brought up the Spores from "This Side of Paradise"). Much of this happened because they didn't have a real story plan, they went from week to week with the best scripts they had, trying to get them complete and on-the-air. So TOS is a rushed hodge-podge of ideas, sometimes not making since within even the context of TOS (though I still love it so very much). I mean, "Arena" was infamously written in a weekend by Gene L. Coon because they were out of scripts to shoot.

It simply wasn't built the way a modern TV is built. Where you have close to a year to come up with ten or so interconnected stories.

TOS was a different beast built for different times.
 
There are some instances above I agree with, others I don't. The details aren't important about which is which (also someone brought up the Spores from "This Side of Paradise"). Much of this happened because they didn't have a real story plan, they went from week to week with the best scripts they had, trying to get them complete and on-the-air. So TOS is a rushed hodge-podge of ideas, sometimes not making since within even the context of TOS (though I still love it so very much). I mean, "Arena" was infamously written in a weekend by Gene L. Coon because they were out of scripts to shoot.

It simply wasn't built the way a modern TV is built. Where you have close to a year to come up with ten or so interconnected stories.

TOS was a different beast built for different times.
This is where a complete reboot or retirement would be appropriate. It saddens me that TNG insisted upon connecting so closely to TOS rather than be its own thing.
 
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