Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x12 - "Through the Valley of Shadows"

[Noname Given]

Just to prove I can say something negative about Discovery, I wish they'd remember that phasers can vaporize people.

Maybe the Model they have in ST: D's period (10 years prior to TOS) can't. It doesn't seem able to produce a constant 'beam'.

 

[Lord Garth]

Maybe the Model they have in ST: D's period (10 years prior to TOS) can't. It doesn't seem able to produce a constant 'beam'.

"The Cage" and constantly blasting at the Talos IV rocks kind of messes that idea up.

"CAN YOU GIVE US ANYMORE???" And before you say, "That was a Cannon!", they were shooting a constant beam with their phasers earlier too, when they were trying to blast through the rock to rescue Pike.

So either Disco's phasers are just a different type of model, or it's a legitimate retcon/screw-up. Take your pick.

 

[Tuskin38]

Hmm

 

[Noname Given]

"The Cage" and constantly blasting at the Talos IV rocks kind of messes that idea up.

"CAN YOU GIVE US ANYMORE???" And before you say, "That was a Cannon!", they were shooting a constant beam with their phasers earlier too, when they were trying to blast through the rock to rescue Pike.

Not really - those were 'Hand Lasers' - not 'Phasers' [Hey, it was said on screen so it's canon. Guess they left the Phase Pistols in the weapons locker because hey, the survivore were Human...]

 

[GNDN18]

Hmm

All along I thought these would create the Fortress of Solitude.

 

[Noname Given]

one does not simply walk into Boreth

Funny. Worf seemed to take a weekend off there in TNG S6 - "Rightful Heir"

 

[XCV330]

Maybe the Model they have in ST: D's period (10 years prior to TOS) can't. It doesn't seem able to produce a constant 'beam'.

the carbine/rifle version does, though.

 

[drt]

Could ZORA in the future be the embodiment of the Sphere Data?

Would making it sentient be how they keep control form acquiring it?


(kinda like the battle between Ultron & Vision)

I see a few people continuing to mention Airiam's memories, but they may have missed those were specifically shown being deleted in the beginning of "The Red Angel"

 

[plynch]

In Cage, they blew the top off the mountain, but didn't think so, right?

Pike is the archetypal, fully formed hero. He hits us at the collective unconscious level. In some other thread I guessed they could wipe the DSC, move the show to the E and keep the name as a metaphor.

And make it more FUN. Really, go have adventures already.

Anybody have a source and write down what Pike said? It was inspiring. Do the right thing. He's like the anti-Trump. Put them in an intermix together and they'd power that time crystal.

 

[Noname Given]

Could ZORA in the future be the embodiment of the Sphere Data?

Would making it sentient be how they keep control form acquiring it?


(kinda like the battle between Ultron & Vision)

I think it's possible the 'Sphere Data' was HOW Zora managed to "improve herself" (assuming that is the direction they take this - IE the U.S.S. Discovery is abandoned and sent 900+ years into the future.) Plus whatever they do will either end the Control threat or (and I hope they don't go this route, but yeah they could) 'Control' becomes the genesis of "The Borg".

 

[davejames]

Discovery is sent off to the future to put it out of Control's reach as we saw in short treks. And the we continue making "Discoveries" on board the Enterprise for the rest of the series.

It definitely seems to be setting that up, which would be just mindblowingly cool to see, but I'm a bit afraid to get that excited for it just yet, as it would be SUCH a bold step for the show and I can easily imagine them finding some other last minute solution instead.

And then it turns out to be some other crisis down the road that sends the ship to the 33rd Century.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I gave this episode a "7." Would have been a "6," but the part of the episode where Captain Pike saw his future got me verklempt. I did almost immediately laugh when the timekeeper told him if he took the crystal his fate would sealed - not undercutting Pike's nobility, however, either way he was not going to have a rosy future.

The reason for a "6" would have been simply this episode was decent enough, but still felt a bit gooberish. Spock and Burnham not suspecting a trap (where's Admiral Akbar when you need him?) struck me as wonky and inconsistent.

Jett Reno interceding for Stamets with Dr. Culbert was kind of "meh." If Culbert is not feeling it then he's not feeling it those emotions can't just be turned "on" or "off". Reno's pressuring the doctor, for any reason, just struck me as a BIG "mind your own business!"

To be honest, I briefly considered rating this episode a "5" simply because I thought the more they go into the "time crystal" stuff the hokier it comes across. For me the weakest part of the storytelling and again just strikes me as out of sync with the style and atmosphere of STD.

Going back to Captain PIke, doing what must be done, all the while knowing a fate worse than death will be your reward, well, that is old school hero right there.

 

[BillJ]

Going back to Captain PIke, doing what must be done, all the while knowing a fate worse than death will be your reward, well, that is old school hero right there.

It was either that or end up fighting in the Civil War and building a railroad. It is a deleted scene.

 

[XCV330]

It definitely seems to be setting that up, which would be just mindblowingly cool to see, but I'm a bit afraid to get that excited for it just yet, as it would be SUCH a bold step for the show and I can easily imagine them finding some other last minute solution instead.

And then it turns out to be some other crisis down the road that sends the ship to the 33rd Century.

With the next episode title being "Such Sweet Sorrow" they're parting from somewhere to somewhere or somewhen to somewhen.

 

[Sakonna]

Jett Reno interceding for Stamets with Dr. Culbert was kind of "meh." If Culbert is not feeling it then he's not feeling it those emotions can't just be turned "on" or "off". Reno's pressuring the doctor, for any reason, just struck me as a BIG "mind your own business!"

I hated the premise for that scene at the beginning. I don't like that TV trope, a character meddling in someone else's relationship, and the show presenting it like this presumptuousness and absence of boundaries are somehow admirable behavior. But I thought the end of this scene saved it, making it clear this was more about Jett needing to express something about her dead wife than it was about her having actual special insight into the specific Stamets/Culber pairing.

It would have been better if the establishing beat in the mess hall was between Jett and Culber, though. We already had enough info on Stamets & Jett's relationship, that didn't need re-establishing.

 

[Vger23]

Could ZORA in the future be the embodiment of the Sphere Data?

Would making it sentient be how they keep control form acquiring it?


(kinda like the battle between Ultron & Vision)

That's a pretty interesting thought, for sure.

"The Cage" and constantly blasting at the Talos IV rocks kind of messes that idea up.

"CAN YOU GIVE US ANYMORE???" And before you say, "That was a Cannon!", they were shooting a constant beam with their phasers earlier too, when they were trying to blast through the rock to rescue Pike.

So either Disco's phasers are just a different type of model, or it's a legitimate retcon/screw-up. Take your pick.

Yes, but was that cannon canon?

 

[Nerys Myk]

a small paper could be written: Pike as Trek's Aragorn, fated to his role, given the choice to remove himself from it but eventually taking on the mantle and everything that comes with it. Except Aragorn gets to rule two kingdoms, live a long time and marry an Elf hottie. Pike gets half-melted and confined to the beep chair.

I dunno. He probably lived a long time on Talos and Vina is a bit elfin.

 

[matthunter]

Funny. Worf seemed to take a weekend off there in TNG S6 - "Rightful Heir"

And went back there after the E-D got blown up in Generations, until Sisko sent for him. He found his discussions with the monks "enlightening", which we now realize was a massive fucking understatement.

 

[Noname Given]

8/10

Liked:
- The Klingon D7.

- The mystification of the Klingon held world Borath.

- The Klingon Monks on Borath (probably the first time I've actually enjoyed seeing ST: D Klingons past the Pilot ST: D episode.)

- That the Time Crystals are presented as unique/weird/dangerous, and not just another easily acquirable item to place in a device that fixes a plot complication.

- What happened to L'Rell's/Voq's son.

- Anson Mount as Pike and the entire Pike sequence on Borath <---- That was GREAT and it's a big reason why I rate this episode so highly. (IDK what their plans for Season 3 are; BUT IMO, they could NOT go wrong with integrating the Discovery crew in with Pike's 1701 crew and having an adventure with Pike on the 1701 --- but yeah probably won't happen. )

Disliked:
- The ENTIRE 'Control' story here. So, yeah, seems like Control has taken control of all 31 (hey 'Section 31' I get it) Section 31 ships and is now hell bent on getting its 'hands on the Sphere data. The whole setup seemed extremely telegraphed. Control lures Burnham in an EXTREMELY convoluted attempt to eliminate and replace her. <Yawn> (Yes, it was sufficiently actiony, and space operaish and that IS a part of what ST: D (and the TOS era) is - but yeah, just didn't care for it and the needlessly drawn out predictability of the whole thing. What do I mean by that? Once onboard the Tactical officer (don't recall his name) who did have the trust of Burnham at the start just could have stunned both Spock and Burnham and eliminated and took control of both bodies; but know, it did this needless elaborate 'plot' to isolate Burham, which of course gave Spock the time he needed to save the day. <Yawn>.

Yeah, I get it. Michael Burnham is the 'star' character of this show so they have to have her front and center in something related to the story and this episode - and they needed to get Pike off on his own on Borath to give that part of this episode (the BEST part) the intensity in needed - and they wanted to pad the episode to 48 or so minutes and set up the (I assume two part) climax of the Discovery and Pike's Enterprise in the 'Final Battle' to defeat 'Control'; but yeah, didn't care for the Terminator Tactical officer plot here.

If not for the Borath/Pike storyline here I would have probably given this episode a 5/10; but with it included, again, an 8/10 from me (Hey, I LIKE Pike. )

[It also seems to me they probably ARE going to somehow (with all the time travel to and fro, Time Crystals, etc.) make 'Control' the genesis of "The Borg" <--- And thus that's the 'solution' in that 'The Borg' are able to be fought against and occasionally defeated (or held at bay) by certain species; thus 'Life' goes on. <---- I still have a faint hope perhaps they didn't/won't go down this path, but yeah that hope is fading. ]

 

[XCV330]

8/10

Liked:
- The Klingon D7.

- The mystification of the Klingon held world Borath.

- The Klingon Monks on Borath (probably the first time I've actually enjoyed seeing ST: D Klingons past the Pilot ST: D episode.)

- That the Time Crystals are presented as unique/weird/dangerous, and not just another easily acquirable item to place in a device that fixes a plot complication.

- What happened to L'Rell's/Voq's son.

- Anson Mount as Pike and the entire Pike sequence of Borath <---- That was GREAT and it's a big reason why I rate this episode so highly. (IDK what their plans for Season 3 are; BUT IMO, they could NOT go wrong with integrating the Discovery crew in with Pike's 1701 crew and having an adventure with Pike on the 1701 --- but yeah probably won't happen. )

Disliked:
- The ENTIRE 'Control' story here. So, yeah, seems like Control has taken control of all 31 (hey 'Section 31' I get it) Section 31 ships and is now hell bent on getting its 'hands on the Sphere data. The whole setup seemed extremely telegraphed. Control lures Burnham in an EXTREMELY convoluted attempt to eliminate and replace her. <Yawn> (Yes, it was sufficiently actiony, and space operaish and that IS a part of what ST: D (and the TOS era) is - but yeah, just didn't care for it and the needlessly drawn out predictability of the whole thing. What do I mean by that? Once onboard the Tactical officer (don't recall his name) who did have the trust of Burnham at the start just could have stunned both Spock and Burnham and eliminated and took control of both bodies; but know, it did this needless elaborate 'plot' to isolate Burham, which of course gave Spock the time he needed to save the day. <Yawn>.

Yeah, I get it. Michael Burnham is the 'star' character of this show so they have to have her front and center in something related to the story and this episode - and they needed to get Pike off on his own on Borath to give that part of this episode (the BEST part) the intensity in needed - and they wanted to pad the episode to 48 or so minutes and set up the (I assume two part) climax of the Discovery and Pike's Enterprise in the 'Final Battle' to defeat 'Control'; but yeah, didn't care for the Terminator Tactical officer plot here.

If not for the Borath/Pike storyline here I would have probably given this episode a 5/10; but with it included, again, an 8/10 from me (Hey, I LIKE Pike. )

[It also seems to me they probably ARE going to somehow (with all the time travel to and fro, Time Crystals, etc.) make 'Control' the genesis of "The Borg" <--- And thus that's the 'solution' in that 'The Borg' are able to be fought against and occasionally defeated (or held at bay) by certain species; thus 'Life' goes on. <---- I still have a faint hope perhaps they didn't/won't go down this path, but yeah that hope is fading. ]

They'll need an initial Borg, so far they have control and a couple of grey-goo filled automatons, not Borg.
maybe they start with a Queen.

someone who already has an ocular implant.

someone they've taken time to show more interaction with the rest of the crew lately.

goodbye Detmer.