Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x10 - "The Red Angel"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Mar 21, 2019.

?

Hit it!

  1. 10 - Leaps and bounds ahead of anything Trek has done before.

    10.6%
  2. 9

    24.2%
  3. 8

    28.0%
  4. 7

    14.8%
  5. 6

    8.5%
  6. 5

    3.8%
  7. 4

    3.4%
  8. 3

    2.5%
  9. 2

    0.8%
  10. 1 - Oh boy, what a mess.

    3.4%
  1. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    That's how it is commonly used. It is a humorous way to title a brief summary of the main points.
     
    lawman likes this.
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Yes, I am. Otherwise, a lot of regular fiction is fan fiction.
     
    saladdays likes this.
  3. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Real Gone
    Never seen it used that way. I mean like ever. In my experience it's commonly deployed as a "you went on excessively".
     
    Nerys Myk likes this.
  4. lawman

    lawman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Well, yeah. It is. (Conversely, to be fair and avoid treating fanfic strictly as a pejorative, some fan fiction is better than a lot of regular published fiction...)
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Some times. But, I'm biased since my wife writes fan fiction. However, since I commonly see it used a pejorative I find it rather an odd remark to call something "fan fiction" when it happens in all fiction...it makes little sense to me. :shrug:
     
    Nerys Myk likes this.
  6. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Wiktionary:
    tl;dr

    (chiefly Internet slang) Initialism of too long; didn’t read. Used to indicate that one did not read a (long) text, or to introduce a short summary of an overly long text.
     
    BeatleJWOL likes this.
  7. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    I'm still wondering if there was a major change in direction again part way through the filming process, honestly.... we will see.

    This could explain Lorca in Season 1 as well - he seemed downright mellow and heroic at times, and was able to pass for longer then most MU denizens should have.

    I honestly expected more time shenanigans - like Michael *actually dying* only to narratively have a little rewind.
     
    Vger23 likes this.
  8. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    What part?
     
  9. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    From Memory Alpha:
    Leland claims that Burnham's parents were working on a theory that certain technological leaps were not happenstance, but the result of time travel. This resonates with the Star Trek: Voyager two-parter "Future's End" and "Future's End, Part II", which plot centers around a businessman, who revolutionized late-20th century computer science by stealing technology from the wreck of a 29th century timeship. Another of such intervention occured when Montgomery Scott gave Nichols the formula for transparent aluminum in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.
     
    Turtletrekker likes this.
  10. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
  11. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Thanks guys. Never seen a lot of Voyager. I'm a 23rd century kind of guy. Appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
    Turtletrekker likes this.
  12. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    Was the weird Georgiou/Stamets sexuality conversation confirmation that in the Trek universe, sexuality is the result of environment and not genetics?
     
    BillJ and Phoenix219 like this.
  13. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    LIVE ON STAGE AT THE ALHAMBRA, ONE NIGHT ONLY!
    I have no specific expertise on the matter in real life, but I would tend to expect like many aspects of an individual it's probably a combination of both, with genetic factors providing potential predispositions, and environmental factors from gestation onward shaping their expression?

    [EDITED TO ADD: In any case, we know there is a biological difference as well between Mirror and Prime; the sensitivity to sudden changes in light was said to be one in "Vaulting Ambition" (DSC).]

    -MMoM:D
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  14. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    I word for word said this when that scene aired!! I also said I wondered what kind of shit storm is that going to kick up on the online boards? :D I answered my own question, with the fact that most Terrans probably could not actually say "no" to the Empress....
     
  15. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    That's a good point about saying "no" to Georgiou. Her perspective may be a little off... but surely she'd know if he was, umm, truly enjoying himself or not?
     
  16. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas DISCO QUEEEEEEN Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Location:
    Intergalactic Planetary Planetary Intergalactic
    Yikes. Better to steer clear of that can of worms.
     
  17. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    Go Lick The World!
    A similar debate arose, IIRC, when NuSulu was revealed to be gay in STBeyond and there was no indication of such a thing with prime-Sulu. Even Takei apparently weighed in on the matter, saying that Sulu was not gay, with the new movie implying that it was more of a choice rather than genetics. Caused quite a ruckus back then.

    My answer to all that is that there could have been quantum-level genetic changes made as well in the alternate timeline. Remember Kirk’s eye color changed between universes. Why not Sulu’s sexual orientation?
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    Who says every character is the same exact sperm/egg combination in every universe?
     
    137th Gebirg likes this.
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    The gods of dramatic convenience.
     
  20. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    LIVE ON STAGE AT THE ALHAMBRA, ONE NIGHT ONLY!
    That's what prompted this response from Simon Pegg...

    http://simonpegg.net/2016/07/11/a-word-about-canon/

    Of course, Pegg is wrong when he says "Canon tells us, Hikaru Sulu was born before the Kelvin incident"—Canon is mute on the subject of Sulu's age, and even the Okuda Chronology always conjectured that he was born in 2237, after it. So the additional timey-wimey elaboration was a wholly unnecessary complication to invoke in defense of this particular front, even if it might potentially hold other appeals as a general proposition, in the eyes of some (no pun intended).

    Further, with all due respect to Takei, I see no real reason Sulu Prime can't be reinterpreted as gay. Can anyone point out instances of him displaying overt attraction for women when he wasn't being affected by sci-fi stuff like the Venus drug in "Mudd's Women" (TOS) or Deltan pheromones in TMP? There aren't really any that stick out substantially in my memory, although I stand to be set straight (pun intended). In TFF, he could have just been playing wingman for his buddy Chekov, bemused at the latter's drooling over Vixis.

    Kelvin Chekov is several years older than Chekov Prime...but then, perhaps they were both test-tube babies conceived from the same frozen sperm/egg at two different times?

    In any case though, looking it up, studies have consistently shown that identical twins (of which each pair indeed stems from the exact same sperm/egg combination) don't always share their sexual orientation in common, so whatever makes the difference there could presumably apply here too.

    I'm not sure where all the false dichotomies spring from. Just because orientation isn't purely a matter of genetics, that doesn't make it a "choice." (We certainly don't choose the levels of various hormones to which we're exposed in our mothers' wombs as we develop, for one example.) And just because environmental factors may contribute, that doesn't preclude there being an underlying genetic component as well. Nature/nurture needn't be an either/or question.

    -MMoM:D
     
    lawman, 137th Gebirg and Longinus like this.