Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"

[Noname Given]

The beep chair is just censoring swearing. Pike is a bad place emotionally.

yeah, if I were in Pike's situation seen in "The Menagerie" I would probably be cussing up a storm too.

 

[Noname Given]

Not for me. I thought it was a good episode, but nothing near Trek's finest hours. Not even sure I would rank it as above "All Our Yesterdays". Of course, YMMV.

Whereas I'd rank "If Memory Serves" above EVERY episode produced during TNG's, DS9's and VOY's 7 season run; and ENT's 4 Season run. (And no, I'm NOT kidding.) That was the BEST post TOS 'Star Trek' franchise episode made to date.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Someone should write a book, geared toward Trek fans, that is titled 'You Are Not Spock'.

Any of us could have had X-number of conflicts with siblings that played out in whatever way.

WE ARE NOT SPOCK.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

always the same expression

hey @Locutus of Bored we need that expression montage in this thread too

for people complaining about something that's "always the same", y'all sure sound like cookie cutters

 

[TrickyDickie]

hey @Locutus of Bored we need that expression montage in this thread too

Seconded

 

[XCV330]

hey @Locutus of Bored we need that expression montage in this thread too

for people complaining about something that's "always the same", y'all sure sound like cookie cutters

Many of Michael Burnham's most ardent and inexplicable critics may find their experience with the character slightly improves by raising the brightness level of their monitor to the maximum extent possible.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

why @XCV330 you're not suggesting that such critics are having a problem with, say, her skin tone or anything, are you?

 

[XCV330]

why @XCV330 you're not suggesting that such critics are having a problem with, say, her skin tone or anything, are you?

does compute

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I'll stop cruisin' for a bruisin' from the mods now.

 

[Tim Thomason]

yeah, if I were in Pike's situation seen in "The Menagerie" I would probably be cussing up a storm too.

Some dialogue from The Menagerie, courtesy of Chakoteya:

SPOCK: Captain Pike, may I remain for a moment?
PIKE: F**k.
SPOCK: You know why I've come, Captain. It's only six days away at maximum warp and I have it well-planned.
PIKE: F**k off.
SPOCK: I have never disobeyed your orders before, Captain, but this time I must.
PIKE: Sh*t, no.
SPOCK: I know. I know it is treachery and it's mutiny. But I must do this.
PIKE: WTF?!
SPOCK: I have no choice.
PIKE: F**k you!

MCCOY: What is this, Spock? Captain, are you all right?
PIKE: F**k no.
MCCOY: I see that you're still signaling.

 

[BillJ]

No other series attempted to make the lead of the show an outright laughingstock in the same fashion.

Not intentionally. While not intentional, I felt like they did the same thing to Michael Burnham in "The Vulcan Hello"/"Battle at the Binary Stars".

He's shown as irrational, petty, self-absorbed, and utterly unfit for command.

Every Trek lead has shown those qualities in various episodes.

 

[fireproof78]

... I get that Spock was insecure in his humanity or sense of self... whatever. But to play up something a girl in distress told him as some kind of damaging moment is plainly ridiculous. How many children were told cruel things by their siblings and didn't turn into psychiatric messes? The way Spock's turned into a walking psychiatric disaster with learning disabilities and "visions"... sorry, but what exactly is the purpose of this?

With due respect the impact of the words depends greatly on the support system around a person. I work with clients who still struggle with words from when they were 8. Add in that Vulcans are not emotionless, but control them through logic and it can create an undercurrent of resentment for years.

Perhaps this will vary from person to person but I have seen enough to find it very believable for a human who isn't a half-alien hybrid.

 

[PiotrB]

And sorry, Martin-Green doesn't display any sort of acting abilities... always the same expression, always the same tone of voice.

I knew that the link would be useful but I didn't think so quickly and in the same thread. ‍ Short answer: nope and longer:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/sta...if-memory-serves.298675/page-56#post-12846659

 

[seigezunt]

... the death penalty is already in place by this point...

Is it? I don't believe it's ever mentioned exactly when it's instituted. Was it right after Pike's mission? All I recall is that we know it's in place by the time The Menagerie happens.

 

[Gilora]

Someone should write a book, geared toward Trek fans, that is titled 'You Are Not Spock'.

Any of us could have had X-number of conflicts with siblings that played out in whatever way.

WE ARE NOT SPOCK.

This.

 

[Alan Roi]

Someone should write a book, geared toward Trek fans, that is titled 'You Are Not Spock'.

Any of us could have had X-number of conflicts with siblings that played out in whatever way.

WE ARE NOT SPOCK.

And then exactly 20 years later, that someone, after a little introspection concerning their own family life (cause sometimes it does take this long) and gets feedback from people they know with siblings will write a sequel entitled:

WE ARE SPOCK.

(This will include a forward written by Spock himself concerned how illogical the title is).

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I don't think it's wrong (even in a ST-forum) to criticize episodes and/or shows. So I'll keep doing it, even if others here keep gushing over this show.

* the big conflict moment...

... I get that Spock was insecure in his humanity or sense of self... whatever. But to play up something a girl in distress told him as some kind of damaging moment is plainly ridiculous. How many children were told cruel things by their siblings and didn't turn into psychiatric messes? The way Spock's turned into a walking psychiatric disaster with learning disabilities and "visions"... sorry, but what exactly is the purpose of this?

And sorry, Martin-Green doesn't display any sort of acting abilities... always the same expression, always the same tone of voice. Urgh. And I thought Jolene Blalock signified the epitome of poor-acting in ST with that teary voice and always rolling her eyes.

* Talos IV

... the death penalty is already in place by this point... and no one bats an eyelid? Discovery's just told to report to SB 11 for "disciplinary" action? Supposedly, the whole "The Cage" already took place (hated that "previously on"), so the danger posed by the Talosians is known. Or should we believe now that only after the events on Discovery any visits to Talos IV would be faced with capital punishment?

* the "jokes"

the beard joke... really? And that parting shot by illusion!Spock... what the hell was that? Both weren't funny, and the last one... are we meant to believe that the Talosians have any kind of humour?

* notdead!doctor and Tyler

Wow, who'd believe that Culber actually reacts like a human being in not being okay. I'd say right now that's the only natural reaction I've seen on this show so far. And all this incredulity and belief that everything's going back to normal now that he's back... exactly what kind of sedative/emotion-killing agent have the scriptwriters been consuming lately? What about psychological help? It's not as though Culber just woke up again, he spent quite some time in the network.

I'm not even going into the ludicrous depiction of S31.

Wouldn't have believed it with the first 2 episodes this season which I really enjoyed... but this season is actually worse than season 1 (due to Lorca who somehow held everything together). I guess I'll watch the remaining episodes out of some completist-neurosis... but past that...

For people who like to throw out frequent accusations of others being "gushers" or part of the groupthink echo chamber hive mind that talks in newspeak, perhaps it would be better if your responses didn't look like a format letter with the exact same complaints in a similar order.

It's not even necessary to rebut everything in your post, since I already responded to the exact same complaints in AccessDenied's post. So that's handy.
(Thanks to @PiotrB for posting the link above)

The only thing I will rebut is that the death penalty for violating General Order 7 and contacting the Talosians only has to be instituted sometime between 2254 (TOS - The Cage) and 2267 (TOS - The Menagerie), so in 2257 (DSC - If Memory Serves), it may not even have been implemented yet. In fact, it may have been established because of this incident.

Personally, I'd just prefer if they avoid mentioning it altogether like they did in this episode, because the Federation having this one specific capital offense that's supposedly antithetical to their laws, customs, and beliefs is stupid, regardless of how dangerous contacting the Talosians can be.

hey @Locutus of Bored we need that expression montage in this thread too

for people complaining about something that's "always the same", y'all sure sound like cookie cutters

PiotrB already gave us a helpful link to the post, but here's the image again.

 

[DaveyNY]

And then exactly 20 years later, that someone, after a little introspection concerning their own family life (cause sometimes it does take this long) and gets feedback from people they know with siblings will write a sequel entitled:

WE ARE SPOCK.

More likely ...

"WE THOUGHT WE WERE SPOCK"

 

[Alan Roi]

More likely ...

"WE THOUGHT WE WERE SPOCK"

Someone does not know their Leonard Nimoy.

 

[DaveyNY]

For people who like to throw out frequent accusations of others being "gushers" or part of the groupthink echo chamber hive mind that talks in newspeak, perhaps it would be better if your responses didn't look like a format letter with the exact same complaints in a similar order.

It's not even necessary to rebut everything in your post, since I already responded to the exact same complaints in AccessDenied's post. So that's handy.
(Thanks to @PiotrB for posting the link above)

The only thing I will rebut is that the death penalty for violating General Order 7 and contacting the Talosians only has to be instituted sometime between 2254 (TOS - The Cage) and 2267 (TOS - The Menagerie), so in 2257 (DSC - If Memory Serves), it may not even have been implemented yet. In fact, it may have been established because of this incident.

Personally, I'd just prefer if they avoid mentioning it altogether like they did in this episode, because the Federation having this one specific capital offense that's supposedly antithetical to their laws, customs, and beliefs is stupid, regardless of how dangerous contacting the Talosians can be.


PiotrB already gave us a helpful link to the post, but here's the image again.

OK, OK... I'll fess up ....
I'm a GUSHER ....

(are we still talking Trek?)