Seemed to be cast related. After all, they did give Star Trek a second chance.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x06 - "The Sound of Thunder"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
From S31,the implication I've (and pretty much everyone I've always talked too) has always gotten is that it's basically a conspiracy/cabal of radicalised Starfleet Intelligence officers that use S31 of the charter to justify crimes against humanity and the Federations values, that certain people in the Federation know about (probably head of Starfleet Intelligence and some of the admiralty) but turn a blind eye too. Nobody officially "supports" Section 31 but they don't get in their way as well. This lines up with what Sloan said as well, they have no HQ, no ships, no records or anything and only exists in the minds of it's operatives, because it's a informal radical faction of agents and sympathisers, rather than an actual structured organisation.
S31 just as an official open organisation makes zero sense whatsoever. I'm not someone who cares all that much about canon violations (I even like Discovery's Klingons aside from the woeful exterior ship designs), but this S31 retcon is too much even for me. The name alone doesn't even make sense for a formal organisation, because the reason they're known by S31 is that their ideology is based on a stretched reading of the A4S31 of the Starfleet charter. It also flows into the worst part of what was actually a decent episode here as well, the Ash/Voq stuff which makes even less sense now than ever. (I can not believe for a second Ash/Voq would be loyal too or working with the Federation)
Agree as well. It's just really great Sci-fi.
According to BTS stories (Star Trek Memories and I am Spock, specifically), the executives felt that the audience would not be able to connect with the actors in a meaningful way. The oft-cited "too cerebral" may not be a remark against the material itself but rather how the actors come across, namely very unapproachable.
They didn’t exactly pass on it, as they ordered a second pilot. According to the solow/justman book they loved it but wanted some changes before ordering a series.
It's pretty good for television.
Agree totally. I would just needlessly add how things work out for the best. In this brave new world of distribution and niche programming with modest expectations quality is the primary focus in order to change or speed up change in viewing habits. Like the early days of television when they felt the requirement to compete for the movie going audiences. This focus will sadly not last forever. Eventually there will be a period of consolidation and competition will give way to coexistence. The fact that subscription dollars are involved also applies a certain pressure but that will eventually dissipate.
Bottom line: Enjoy! These are good old days you'll reminisce about.
Respectfully, I know the history and I know the book. Officially NBC did pass on the first pilot, The Cage, therefore I was correct and consequently no correction was needed. The fact NBC afforded Star Trek a second chance to impress is a separate point.
Maybe how radicalized S31 is -- and how secretive -- ebbs and flows with time. That ebb and flow might occur for various reasons, and reasons not always under the control of even Starfleet itself.
A lot of changes could occur within Section 31 in the 225 years that we first and last saw them between the 2150s and the 2370s.
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The reason given was that The Cage was "too cerebral" and that's what I personally found odd. I felt it was good as is. Of course I'm seeing it out of context in terms of the era in which it was created. They did "suggest" some casting notes. Personally, I didn't think Majel Barrett was bad at all and she certainly wasn't the only actress in Hollywood sleeping with a producer who went on to cast them in something (::cough:: Nichelle Nichols ::cough, cough:: ).
Cerebral was code for "sexy" or so I have heard.
That doesn't really make any sense though. S31 at it's very core goes against the core concept and vision of the Federation, both in universe and as a core fundamental concept of the Federation representing a future where we're not imperialist "realpolitik" warmongers.
S31 works as a radicalised group that think the ends justify the means and they're above the naive ideals of the Federation because psychopaths will always exist and sway people to their ways, but it simply doesn't work as a legitimate organised recognised organisation. Not only the secrecy canon thing alone which is the lesser of my issues, just it's so on the nose for what Star Trek and the Federation is supposed to represent. If S31 exists as a known and supported organisation, what makes the Federation any different from current real world 20th/21st century Governments?
In canon it really doesn't work as well. Why would the Romulans and Klingons delete their S31 information? In DS9 the Romulans clearly have never heard of S31 and think it was just a dumb story by a psychopath rogue agent.
I really don't think they thought about this beyond "Wow S31 is so dark and edgy, lets have them here as well because people like grimdark!". It's the exact same mistake of how S31 was presented in Into Darkness as well and of all the canon violations of Discovery, this is the one that actually grates on me. Holograms, Klingons, Nacelles who cares really, but this S31 retcon is really
S31 works as a radicalised group that think the ends justify the means and they're above the naive ideals of the Federation because psychopaths will always exist and sway people to their ways, but it simply doesn't work as a legitimate organised recognised organisation. Not only the secrecy canon thing alone which is the lesser of my issues, just it's so on the nose for what Star Trek and the Federation is supposed to represent. If S31 exists as a known and supported organisation, what makes the Federation any different from current real world 20th/21st century Governments?
In canon it really doesn't work as well. Why would the Romulans and Klingons delete their S31 information? In DS9 the Romulans clearly have never heard of S31 and think it was just a dumb story by a psychopath rogue agent.
I really don't think they thought about this beyond "Wow S31 is so dark and edgy, lets have them here as well because people like grimdark!". It's the exact same mistake of how S31 was presented in Into Darkness as well and of all the canon violations of Discovery, this is the one that actually grates on me. Holograms, Klingons, Nacelles who cares really, but this S31 retcon is really
When was this? I know the Tucker, Klingon S31 episode but I don't remember any direct contact between the two.
Reed is a former operative.
In "Inquisition", Sloan says Section 31 is part of Starfleet's Charter and has been around since the beginning. In "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges", Admiral Ross is working with Section 31. At the end of "Inquistion" when Bashir says he'll tell Starfleet about them, Sloan says he won't lose any sleep over it.
That's all straight from the '90s.
That's all straight from the '90s.
https://screenrant.com/star-trek-re...PdkDYg5TyDy2EjHJJoBjBHY9P0m1PDTfjPKiEl2mVo8mo
That's just a lovely way out idea.......Using the short episode Calypso as a guide, though I do wonder, but then even for Trek would this be just a bit too much?
That's just a lovely way out idea.......Using the short episode Calypso as a guide, though I do wonder, but then even for Trek would this be just a bit too much?
A 10. What I noticed:
2x06
- Excellent music again this episode
- Love the Pike/Saru chair moment
- Love the Saru Short Trek inclusion of video
- I like that Culber is & isn't Culber
- Kelpian makeup effects are some of the best in ALL iterations of Trek
- "Tea", Dad's dead.
- The Ba'ul audio booms are fantastic, terrifying
- Ba'ul ships are awesome, pyramid-like
- "Saru without fear" is AMAZING
- halfway through and I'm leaning towards a "10" already, Best episode of Disco so far.
- Michael's Starfleet pajamas are awesome, I want some.
- Saru, MacGuyver.
- Really hope it's turnabout & Saru's people become "galactic predators". Very "Star Trek".
- giant underwater UFO?
- "Hail these bastards"
- Red Angel looks like it has mechanical components, and then it actually looks like a robot.
- Pike versus 31
- Is the Red Angel someone from the future trying to turn the Kelpians loose on the galaxy? The Borg Queen?
A 10. What I noticed:
2x06
- Excellent music again this episode
- Love the Pike/Saru chair moment
- Love the Saru Short Trek inclusion of video
- I like that Culber is & isn't Culber
- Kelpian makeup effects are some of the best in ALL iterations of Trek
- "Tea", Dad's dead.
- The Ba'ul audio booms are fantastic, terrifying
- Ba'ul ships are awesome, pyramid-like
- "Saru without fear" is AMAZING
- halfway through and I'm leaning towards a "10" already, Best episode of Disco so far.
- Michael's Starfleet pajamas are awesome, I want some.
- Saru, MacGuyver.
- Really hope it's turnabout & Saru's people become "galactic predators". Very "Star Trek".
- giant underwater UFO?
- "Hail these bastards"
- Red Angel looks like it has mechanical components, and then it actually looks like a robot.
- Pike versus 31
- Is the Red Angel someone from the future trying to turn the Kelpians loose on the galaxy? The Borg Queen?
It's Rommie................. with upgrades
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Hmmmm. Since 2000, because of Andromeda, I've figured that the Federation might actually eventually become part of something larger like Star Trek's own version of the Commonwealth. So Zora, the stand-in for Rommie, fits like a glove.
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