Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x06 - "The Sound of Thunder"

[Rahul]

The idea of the Ba'ul wanting to analyse Saru before killing him I think is meant to reflect their more methodical, intellectual nature. They speak derisively of the Kelpiens being slaves to their primal instincts, and that the Kelpiens can't/shouldn't govern themselves. They see themselves as more 'civilized'. But Saru has already proven that Kelpiens are not just savage people unable to grow or progress beyond their more predatory beginnings. The fact that their society is already different to how it was 2000 years ago means that they can change and adapt again if needed. The Ba'ul are the ones who are trying to maintain a status quo that favors them, but at the cost of countless Kelpien lives. While I do thing it's important to acknowledge that the apple-cart has been upset, and there might be very negative consequences for what happened because of the drastic nature of the steps taken, I also think we're supposed to have hope that Saru and Siranna are correct that the Kelpiens are capable of more. Of forgiveness and understanding. Otherwise the Ba'ul were right for committing ethnic cleansing over thousands of years. I don't think that's meant to be the correct message. The hard part will be trying to find a peaceful solution where both species don't have to live in fear.

I really liked that the writers decided the Ba'ul would be a paranoid, frightened race, but for good reason. Clearly they are reclusive, preferring to rule through deception and guile. For them it has been a winning strategy, until now. Because the truth got out. The truth they'd systemically been hiding from the Kelpiens about themselves.
An extra little detail I appreciated was the fact that the Ba'ul's back fins or spikes instinctively inflated in response to Saru's also instinctive quill attack. It was a reaction which undercut the words it was saying about the Kelpiens being the primal species, unable to control themselves.

Well, if you are or feel small, then overcompensating with huge ships is the way to go, right? Like a pufferfish, or a cat, when threatened the point is to make oneself appear larger and more threatening even though that in itself is a pure defense mechanism.

I do appreciate the fact that Discover in general is giving us puzzles like these to solve. Then again, one of my favorite scifi films/books is the Abyss.

I also like that in the Ba'ul we are really seeing something alien, both in terms of visual and audio. The conversations they had with Pike were disturbing, their tech was overblown in a The Tholian Web kind of a way and though physically they were a horror-trope tar creature, they were a very well realised horror-trope tar creature.

Young predators often are vulnerable, even if the adults are formidable, I could see that as evolutionarily advantageous.

I think this is one of the main reasons I enjoyed this episode as much as I did:
Yes, it did have some clunky scenes in it. Saru basically being able to do whatever he wanted undisturbed while a prisoner on the alien ship didn't make sense. And the prime directive was violated pretty blatantly in a manner that should have maybe been better thought out.

But holy cow gave us this episode a lot to think about!
This is truly the best kind of example for a "high-concept" episode - the type of Science Fiction I like the most. It was completely entertaining on in it's own. But it introduced as to so many ideas, gave us so much to think about - and still made sense overall. I really, really appreciate that, this is what makes "Star Trek" special for me, and this episode captured that perfectly!

 

[Ricky]

I think this is one of the main reasons I enjoyed this episode as much as I did:
Yes, it did have some clunky scenes in it. Saru basically being able to do whatever he wanted undisturbed while a prisoner on the alien ship didn't make sense. And the prime directive was violated pretty blatantly in a manner that should have maybe been better thought out.

But holy cow gave us this episode a lot to think about!
This is truly the best kind of example for a "high-concept" episode - the type of Science Fiction I like the most. It was completely entertaining on in it's own. But it introduced as to so many ideas, gave us so much to think about - and still made sense overall. I really, really appreciate that, this is what makes "Star Trek" special for me, and this episode captured that perfectly!

It was schlocky at times and in places for brevity and narrative reasons it breezed over a few logic points, but it had some stand out dramatic moments that felt to me very much like TOS. I'm sure anyone can picture the kind of stand off that happened between Saru and Pike happening between Kirk and Spock with McCoy filling the Michael role. That's a kind of dramatic conflict that we haven't really had in a starship crew since TOS.

And yeah, when the Ba'ul ship just kept unfolding into more ships until they had the Discovery circled... as I said, it's a Tholian Web moment. A moment when it looks that way just 'cause someone thought it'd make for a striking image.

I've enjoyed every episode this season but this is the first one I want to rewatch in such a short space of time.

 

[urbandefault]

"It's a delicious slice of Galaxy pie" gets my vote for this week's favorite Tillyism.

It reminded me of this:

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I’m curious how Control is going to keep Section 31 a secret in the future. Is the show going to end with it killing everyone who knows.

Perhaps Section 31 was much more secretive and autonomous during the ENT era, but Starfleet eventually gained purview and control over S31 sometime since ENT. Then between now and the DS9 era, S31 will begin to once again become more secretive. The officers who knew about them will mostly retire from Starfleet or die off over the next few decades.

During the interim, maybe those older officers who know of Section 31 are instructed to no longer talk about them, so the younger generation of officers don’t have the knowledge of them.

Also sometime in the 90 years between DIS and the DS9 era, the leadership of S31 wrestles control of the group from direct Starfleet control, and once again gains the autonomy it had in the ENT days.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I checked Inquisition, where we first learned about Section 31. Sloan identifies Section 31 as a branch within Starfleet Intelligence and, according to Sisko, "Starfleet Command doesn't acknowledge its existence, but they don't deny it either."

 

[Mechanoid1]

I'd really like to see him in his own series aboard the Enterprise.

I agree! I've said the same thing at another Star Trek discussion site, right after E2. Overwhelmed by the number of thumbs up. So we are not alone with that desire of an additional different series.
I think it was Pikes acting and initial yellow uniform that made me desire a possible different series as soon as I seen him on Discovery. Possibly CBS would air that series to the public.

 

[Greg Cox]

Possibly CBS would air that series to the public.

You mean as opposed to CBS All Access?

That's not going to happen. DISCO isn't on CBSAA because somebody thought it wouldn't be popular enough for regular network television. DISCO, along with the other new Trek shows, were created for the express purpose of attracting subscribers to CBSAA. That's why they exist, at least from a business standpoint.

To put it another way, plain old CBS doesn't need STAR TREK. They're doing just fine with their police procedurals and such, which is what their audience expects. CBSAA does need STAR TREK, so that's where you can expect it for the time being.

 

[Mechanoid1]

You mean as opposed to CBS All Access?
That's not going to happen.

Wow had no idea the love for CBS All Access. Heaven forbid the thought!
So how do you feel about the main topic of a new series centered around Pike and the Enterprise?

 

[Alan Roi]

Wow had no idea the love for CBS All Access. Heaven forbid the thought!
So how do you feel about the main topic of a new series centered around Pike and the Enterprise?

I'd be certain it could be written like the second coming of Blood Drive but if people could have beige sets and color coded uniforms to gaze at for 45 minutes every week and if a good chunk of each episode was devoted to the bridge crew talking to each other around a boardroom table it would be instantly hailed as the bestest Star Trek ever by many and a complete return to form.

 

[Hythlodeus]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I vaguely remember a pilot episode for a show based on the premise of the adventures of Pike, Number 1 and Spock on the Enterprise and that pilot didn't do well enough to warrant a whole series.

 

[Paul Weaver]

I felt Pike's General Order 1 reaction to be out of character compared to what we saw on new eden. It was all fine until Tilly starts talking about how to engage planet wide evolution. At that point, rather than stepping in and saying "hey wait a minute", he just went with the flow.

Kirk may have broken it on several occasions, but he always managed to justify it to himself (it only applies to "living, growing cultures" for example).

There was far more reason to break it on New Eden than here, and coming so soon after that episode really drags the whole thing down for me. I hope there are consequences, not just in general, but specifically for Pike.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I guess it depends on how well defined General Order 1 is in 2257.

 

[Greg Cox]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I vaguely remember a pilot episode for a show based on the premise of the adventures of Pike, Number 1 and Spock on the Enterprise and that pilot didn't do well enough to warrant a whole series.

Although, to be fair, it's not like NBC aired that pilot and it got bad ratings or bad reviews or whatever. It was shown only to test audiences and NBC executives and never made it to the air, except, eventually, as flashbacks in "The Menagerie."

We'll never know how the general public would have reacted to a Pike TV series since it never happened back in the sixties. And launching a Pike series now would be a completely different proposition since STAR TREK is now an established franchise, Pike has been part of the lore for more than fifty-plus years, been featured in the movies, etc.

 

[Greg Cox]

Wow had no idea the love for CBS All Access. Heaven forbid the thought!
So how do you feel about the main topic of a new series centered around Pike and the Enterprise?

Not preaching the gospel of CBSAA. Just explaining the practical realities here since I find some folks tend to get the causal relations backwards when it comes to DISCO. They seem to think that CBS felt obliged to create a new Trek series, then decided to put it behind a paywall for nefarious reasons, or because they didn't think it was good enough for old-fashioned network television, or whatever. Whereas, in fact, as I understand it, it's actually the other way around: DISCO only exists because CBSAA needed a big draw to attract subscribers. No CBSAA, no new Trek on TV.

So putting a competitive Trek show on regular TV would be defeating the point, business-wise.

And that's not me judging the merits of that strategy, just spelling it out.

As for a Pike-centric show, I would surely watch it, although it would probably need to find some way to distinguish itself from DISCO other than just the nostalgia factor, which only goes so far.

EDIT: Oops. Sorry for the double post. I figured somebody else would pipe up in the interim while I was composing that second post.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Perhaps Section 31 was much more secretive and autonomous during the ENT era.

The Augment Virus shined a spotlight on their shenanigans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I vaguely remember a pilot episode for a show based on the premise of the adventures of Pike, Number 1 and Spock on the Enterprise and that pilot didn't do well enough to warrant a whole series.

They've a better cast now.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

One thing I appreciate most about Pike is his ability to restrain his ego, something which got the better of both Kirk and Picard on a number of occasions. I expect overall he might be a better commander than either of them.

Pike is a nice mix of Kirk and Picard. He's got enough cowboy in him to be daring without being reckless. Situations get intense but they often have him reason out his thinking. Again, Being right or wrong is often not so important as being decisive. I have respectfully disagreed with how Pike handled some things specifically but I applaud the writers for giving him a distinct point-of-view that doesn't try to be all things to all people with a chorus of Kumbaya in the background. I think he has been inconsistent at times (how he handled things in New Eden versus how he handled things in this episode for instance). In the end, however, it all makes him real and relatable.

This also leads to something I meant to bring up yesterday and that how Discovery really highlights what I felt was wrong with how Paramount viewed Star Trek in general and consequently the product they produced as a result. CBS is largely doing what I've been griping should be done for the past 20 years or so. They are expanding the boundaries of what Star Trek could be and letting it be a bit abrasive. The production is allowing it to offend some peoples sensibilities. There's a doctoral thesis in the comparing and contrasting the difference in how Paramount assessed this franchise versus how CBS does.

 

[Mechanoid1]

As for a Pike-centric show, I would surely watch it, although it would probably need to find some way to distinguish itself from DISCO other than just the nostalgia factor, which only goes so far.

I would also watch both. Discovery is a Science research ship and its stories would naturaly follow that research direction.
The new Pike and crew is on a Star ship, exploring space and new worlds.
Its all good, we are already getting a Section 31 series and a Picard series. Im very happy about those new up and comming shows as well.

 

[marlboro]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. I vaguely remember a pilot episode for a show based on the premise of the adventures of Pike, Number 1 and Spock on the Enterprise and that pilot didn't do well enough to warrant a whole series.

"The Cage" was awesome. It's my second favorite episode of TOS, just behind "City on the Edge of Forever."

 

[Doc Mugatu]

"The Cage" was awesome. It's my second favorite episode of TOS, just behind "City on the Edge of Forever."

"The Cage" is more curio to me than anything else. "Awesome?" No, but it is a solid episode. As far as pilots go it is still mind-boggling that NBC passed on it.

I'm glad however Discovery has excised Pike's critical self-examinations and doubts.