I think many want to just complain that this isn't "their spock" and at least in the next episode based on previews it likely won't be.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x06 - "The Sound of Thunder"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I think many want to just complain that this isn't "their spock" and at least in the next episode based on previews it likely won't be.
Comparing Cornwall to Holdo from The Last Jedi really tells you where he's coming from. Kane Steel: Wrong on Star Trek, wrong on Star Wars.
I like DSC.... DIS makes me think of Disney.
Because it is the humane thing to do. Allowing a near dead species to become extinct because they might attack us is still wrong.
One of the best examples of that is Doctor Who Genesis of the Daleks.
The question I hate asking: How long does it take to repair the Enterprise? I hope they're doing some in-between five-year missions refitting. Otherwise, how bad was the damage really?
I would normally just let this go with a verbal warning, but you already have a previous infraction for promoting piracy, so you should know better.
Infraction for promoting piracy. Comments to PM.
Also, this was the first episode I turned on Closed Caption because I didn't really understand the Baul at first. It was kind of a mix of Armus and The Breen.
The population history would seem to imply that the Ba'ul had advanced medical knowledge 2000 years before 2257, being able to resurrect a dead species. Are, then, Saru and the rest of the Kelpiens we see in DIS the product of genetic engineering?
Keep your alt.Right bullshit off this board.
If you've got a problem, then hit notify on his post instead of resorting to insults.
Infraction for trolling. Comments to PM.
Eh? Where did they resurrect a dead species? They just prevented the Kelpiens from going through their normal life cycle.
From the population history of Kaminar that we see in the episode. We really need screencaps to discuss this,
We begin with three population groups.
* Ba'ul
* Kelpien A (unevolved)
* Kelpien B (evolved)
K-A is destroyed. It began at 26,534 and plunges to 0.
K-B and Ba'ul remain.
K-B is destroyed. It begins at 29169, hovers around this number, then plunges to 0.
K-A is "reborn". It goes from 0 to 30.
We begin with three population groups.
* Ba'ul
* Kelpien A (unevolved)
* Kelpien B (evolved)
K-A is destroyed. It began at 26,534 and plunges to 0.
K-B and Ba'ul remain.
K-B is destroyed. It begins at 29169, hovers around this number, then plunges to 0.
K-A is "reborn". It goes from 0 to 30.
This one gets a 6/10 from me. Again, I probably would have rated it higher if NOT for the age old (and more TNG than TOS trope, although TOS had some instances) of the Alien Race being and doing UTTERLY STUPID things that spared 'our heroes' from failing miserably; being destroyed on the spot.
Liked:
- Aspects of the story setup
- That Saru tried to keep himself in check, but ultimately lost it on the Bridge.
- That Pike acted like a 23rd century Captain and recognized that the PD isn't absolute.
Disliked:
- The scene of Stamets just grinning like an idiot with what appeared to be ZERO empathy for what Culber was experiencing and describing WRT how he felt 'different'. Not to mention the insensitive way he related the story of Culber's now missing (because it's a 'pristine' body) scar that Culber KEPT because he felt it was a significant part of what molded him to be who he is. I can't believe Stamets is that clueless. IF this scene had happened immediately after Culber's 'resurrection'; I might cut Stamets reactions here a bit more slack, but it's been a good number of hours (or days) since; enough for the CMO to run every test a few times over; so yeah, sorry, but starstruck/clueless/grinning idiot Stamets is a disservice to the character by the writers here (IMO).
The COMPLETELY non-nonsensical actions of the Ba'ul. (Needed to make 'our heroes survive and the story work:
- If the Ba'ul can monitor the entire planet; they should NEVER have allowed the Discovery to beam down Saru/Burnham.
- Once Saru has surrendered himself to them; and they transport his sister to the same location the idea that "We're going to study you, THEN kill you" makes ZERO sense here. The Ba'ul KNOW EXACTLY what the Kelpians are. Hell, they're the ones who wiped out all mature Kelpians and took control. Saru and his sister were the only Kelpians 'contaminated by outside contact. Kill them both immediately and problem solved as far as the status quo and "Balance" is concerned. Yes, they might need to negotiate with Pike after that to avoid possible reprisals; but again, unless the Federation Council and Starfleet saw an advantage to the Federation and it's immediate interests, I doubt anything further would have happened beyond the Federation placing the world 'off limits' at worst.
Again, the Ba'ul knew everything. Saru wasn't "special". If they wanted to study a 'mature Kelpian, they could have picked one, beamed him to the facility; restrained him, and done all the research they needed. Saru wasn't special WRT the maturation.
- Also, come on. With ALL the tech they have the Ba'ul don't have the ability to make a device that can kill from range? (IE They have the 'flying drill' devices that coincidentally a mature Kelpian can hold and smash; and metal restraints that a mature Kelpian can easily break
. Further it seems in the entire 'Ba'ul Stronghold' they only have two of them.
<---- Hell, why didn't a swarm of those devices show up and take BOTH Saru and his sister out?
- Also, they don't have enough control over the technology in their Stronghold to block Saru's communication with Discovery so he/then CAN'T broadcast the evolution signal?
- Then once said signal was being broadcast (or said Broadcast set up) -- what happened to the 10 Ba'ul sentry ships that (until Saru surrendered himself) were prepping to blow Discovery up?
Again, the Ba'ul reaction across the board once they said "We'll study then kill you..." made ZERO sense; and it was all too pat that somehow the 'Red Angel' managed to do what Pike was going to attempt with his complement of photon torpedoes before Pike fired. And in fact that whole 'Red Angel' descending to the planet sequence was confusing in that it looked like Discovery had somehow fired a single photon torpedo that hit the exact 'right spot'.
Sorry but IMO a lot of this was a mess. The only reason I rate it as high as I did was for the production values and the acting from Anson Mount (who did a marvelous job as Pike with the scenes he was in) and Doug Jones (even though I don't care for the character of Saru much; or the contrived actions of the Ba'ul needed to allow 'our heroes' to survive and prevail.
This whole script needed another one or two polish rewrites to drop the nonsensical Ba'ul actions and reactions here.
Liked:
- Aspects of the story setup
- That Saru tried to keep himself in check, but ultimately lost it on the Bridge.
- That Pike acted like a 23rd century Captain and recognized that the PD isn't absolute.
Disliked:
- The scene of Stamets just grinning like an idiot with what appeared to be ZERO empathy for what Culber was experiencing and describing WRT how he felt 'different'. Not to mention the insensitive way he related the story of Culber's now missing (because it's a 'pristine' body) scar that Culber KEPT because he felt it was a significant part of what molded him to be who he is. I can't believe Stamets is that clueless. IF this scene had happened immediately after Culber's 'resurrection'; I might cut Stamets reactions here a bit more slack, but it's been a good number of hours (or days) since; enough for the CMO to run every test a few times over; so yeah, sorry, but starstruck/clueless/grinning idiot Stamets is a disservice to the character by the writers here (IMO).
The COMPLETELY non-nonsensical actions of the Ba'ul. (Needed to make 'our heroes survive and the story work:
- If the Ba'ul can monitor the entire planet; they should NEVER have allowed the Discovery to beam down Saru/Burnham.
- Once Saru has surrendered himself to them; and they transport his sister to the same location the idea that "We're going to study you, THEN kill you" makes ZERO sense here. The Ba'ul KNOW EXACTLY what the Kelpians are. Hell, they're the ones who wiped out all mature Kelpians and took control. Saru and his sister were the only Kelpians 'contaminated by outside contact. Kill them both immediately and problem solved as far as the status quo and "Balance" is concerned. Yes, they might need to negotiate with Pike after that to avoid possible reprisals; but again, unless the Federation Council and Starfleet saw an advantage to the Federation and it's immediate interests, I doubt anything further would have happened beyond the Federation placing the world 'off limits' at worst.
Again, the Ba'ul knew everything. Saru wasn't "special". If they wanted to study a 'mature Kelpian, they could have picked one, beamed him to the facility; restrained him, and done all the research they needed. Saru wasn't special WRT the maturation.
- Also, come on. With ALL the tech they have the Ba'ul don't have the ability to make a device that can kill from range? (IE They have the 'flying drill' devices that coincidentally a mature Kelpian can hold and smash; and metal restraints that a mature Kelpian can easily break
. Further it seems in the entire 'Ba'ul Stronghold' they only have two of them. <---- Hell, why didn't a swarm of those devices show up and take BOTH Saru and his sister out?- Also, they don't have enough control over the technology in their Stronghold to block Saru's communication with Discovery so he/then CAN'T broadcast the evolution signal?
- Then once said signal was being broadcast (or said Broadcast set up) -- what happened to the 10 Ba'ul sentry ships that (until Saru surrendered himself) were prepping to blow Discovery up?
Again, the Ba'ul reaction across the board once they said "We'll study then kill you..." made ZERO sense; and it was all too pat that somehow the 'Red Angel' managed to do what Pike was going to attempt with his complement of photon torpedoes before Pike fired. And in fact that whole 'Red Angel' descending to the planet sequence was confusing in that it looked like Discovery had somehow fired a single photon torpedo that hit the exact 'right spot'.
Sorry but IMO a lot of this was a mess. The only reason I rate it as high as I did was for the production values and the acting from Anson Mount (who did a marvelous job as Pike with the scenes he was in) and Doug Jones (even though I don't care for the character of Saru much; or the contrived actions of the Ba'ul needed to allow 'our heroes' to survive and prevail.
This whole script needed another one or two polish rewrites to drop the nonsensical Ba'ul actions and reactions here.
I give this episode a 9. Kept going back and forth between 8 and 9, but gave it an extra point because I think Doug Jones is knocking Saru out of the ballpark.
I did think that taking down the Ba'ul was far too easy, the Red Angel was a deus ex machina, and I wish that the alien design had been a little different -- are the Ba'ul seaweed-like creatures? And the red eyes were not needed.
Everything else was amazing. The opening sequence was just lovely. Some fans have said they dislike the background music in the scenes, but it was particularly beautiful in the opening of this episode.
I'm amazed by the consistent excellence of this Trek series.
I did think that taking down the Ba'ul was far too easy, the Red Angel was a deus ex machina, and I wish that the alien design had been a little different -- are the Ba'ul seaweed-like creatures? And the red eyes were not needed.
Everything else was amazing. The opening sequence was just lovely. Some fans have said they dislike the background music in the scenes, but it was particularly beautiful in the opening of this episode.
I'm amazed by the consistent excellence of this Trek series.
Solid 6 or 7 from me. It was good but not great.
Pike vs Tyler could be an interesting subplot.
The Baaul/Kelpian stuff was good but it seemed weird that the Baaul would just let Saru do what he did without putting up more of a fight. I didn’t like the design of the Baaul either.
No theory on who the red angel is. I just hope it’s not Spock or Burnham from the future or something like that.
Pike vs Tyler could be an interesting subplot.
The Baaul/Kelpian stuff was good but it seemed weird that the Baaul would just let Saru do what he did without putting up more of a fight. I didn’t like the design of the Baaul either.
No theory on who the red angel is. I just hope it’s not Spock or Burnham from the future or something like that.
For me, this was between 8 and 9, and I rounded it to a solid 9. I found this to be the most entertaining episode of the season so far. 
The telling from Saru's perspective was an interesting change this time around. The Kelpians turned out to be a more intriguing species than I expected when the show first started. I appreciated the reconnection between Saru and Siranna and the reestablishment of their relationship over the course of the episode. I thought the pacing was pretty good for the most part, and I really, really liked the conspicuous lack of nonsensical technobabble baloney. The literary reference at the end was a classic touch, as well.
I did keep wondering when the Ba'ul would come try to attack Saru and Siranna after Saru destroyed their little drones. Maybe they were so self-confident that they just assumed the drones had done their job and didn't bother to check up on them.
So sure, there are some weak points and holes in the story... but that's true of the very best of Trek. So you know what? I really don't care.
Kor
The telling from Saru's perspective was an interesting change this time around. The Kelpians turned out to be a more intriguing species than I expected when the show first started. I appreciated the reconnection between Saru and Siranna and the reestablishment of their relationship over the course of the episode. I thought the pacing was pretty good for the most part, and I really, really liked the conspicuous lack of nonsensical technobabble baloney. The literary reference at the end was a classic touch, as well.
I did keep wondering when the Ba'ul would come try to attack Saru and Siranna after Saru destroyed their little drones. Maybe they were so self-confident that they just assumed the drones had done their job and didn't bother to check up on them.
So sure, there are some weak points and holes in the story... but that's true of the very best of Trek. So you know what? I really don't care.
Kor
Remember, Spock is the one that Starfleet turns to when they need to figure out how to build an inescapable brig. I wonder where he picked up that reputation.
*narrows eyes, clenches fist, sighs loudly* I disagree.
This one gets a 6/10 from me. Again, I probably would have rated it higher if NOT for the age old (and more TNG than TOS trope, although TOS had some instances) of the Alien Race being and doing UTTERLY STUPID things that spared 'our heroes' from failing miserably; being destroyed on the spot.
Liked:
- Aspects of the story setup
- That Saru tried to keep himself in check, but ultimately lost it on the Bridge.
- That Pike acted like a 23rd century Captain and recognized that the PD isn't absolute.
Disliked:
- The scene of Stamets just grinning like an idiot with what appeared to be ZERO empathy for what Culber was experiencing and describing WRT how he felt 'different'. Not to mention the insensitive way he related the story of Culber's now missing (because it's a 'pristine' body) scar that Culber KEPT because he felt it was a significant part of what molded him to be who he is. I can't believe Stamets is that clueless. IF this scene had happened immediately after Culber's 'resurrection'; I might cut Stamets reactions here a bit more slack, but it's been a good number of hours (or days) since; enough for the CMO to run every test a few times over; so yeah, sorry, but starstruck/clueless/grinning idiot Stamets is a disservice to the character by the writers here (IMO).
The COMPLETELY non-nonsensical actions of the Ba'ul. (Needed to make 'our heroes survive and the story work:
- If the Ba'ul can monitor the entire planet; they should NEVER have allowed the Discovery to beam down Saru/Burnham.
- Once Saru has surrendered himself to them; and they transport his sister to the same location the idea that "We're going to study you, THEN kill you" makes ZERO sense here. The Ba'ul KNOW EXACTLY what the Kelpians are. Hell, they're the ones who wiped out all mature Kelpians and took control. Saru and his sister were the only Kelpians 'contaminated by outside contact. Kill them both immediately and problem solved as far as the status quo and "Balance" is concerned. Yes, they might need to negotiate with Pike after that to avoid possible reprisals; but again, unless the Federation Council and Starfleet saw an advantage to the Federation and it's immediate interests, I doubt anything further would have happened beyond the Federation placing the world 'off limits' at worst.
Again, the Ba'ul knew everything. Saru wasn't "special". If they wanted to study a 'mature Kelpian, they could have picked one, beamed him to the facility; restrained him, and done all the research they needed. Saru wasn't special WRT the maturation.
- Also, come on. With ALL the tech they have the Ba'ul don't have the ability to make a device that can kill from range? (IE They have the 'flying drill' devices that coincidentally a mature Kelpian can hold and smash; and metal restraints that a mature Kelpian can easily break
- Also, they don't have enough control over the technology in their Stronghold to block Saru's communication with Discovery so he/then CAN'T broadcast the evolution signal?
- Then once said signal was being broadcast (or said Broadcast set up) -- what happened to the 10 Ba'ul sentry ships that (until Saru surrendered himself) were prepping to blow Discovery up?
Again, the Ba'ul reaction across the board once they said "We'll study then kill you..." made ZERO sense; and it was all too pat that somehow the 'Red Angel' managed to do what Pike was going to attempt with his complement of photon torpedoes before Pike fired. And in fact that whole 'Red Angel' descending to the planet sequence was confusing in that it looked like Discovery had somehow fired a single photon torpedo that hit the exact 'right spot'.
Sorry but IMO a lot of this was a mess. The only reason I rate it as high as I did was for the production values and the acting from Anson Mount (who did a marvelous job as Pike with the scenes he was in) and Doug Jones (even though I don't care for the character of Saru much; or the contrived actions of the Ba'ul needed to allow 'our heroes' to survive and prevail.
This whole script needed another one or two polish rewrites to drop the nonsensical Ba'ul actions and reactions here.
Except the Ba'ul aren't badass evil monsters here. They are a cowardly race who isn't up for a fight, so they make sure the Kelpians are allowed to exist, but not until the point that they are dangerous. Its only when they are threatened they decide to get rid of the planetary threat. They are likely too scared to take on a Starship and the Federation, IMO.
I downloaded the episode. There's a button on my CBS AA phone app that allows for downloading episodes for viewing later. It's very handy, everyone should try it.
EDIT: Edited per discussion
EDIT: Edited per discussion
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