Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

[Nyotarules]

But no one told Uhura. When Scotty Informs Eminarians about the imminent destruction, she turns to Scotty, looking shocked. Were it a real general order, she obviously would have already known what it meant.

Or Uhura was shocked they were going to do it. Armed forces personnel know nuclear weapons exist but they will still be shocked if they were ordered to blast a city

 

[Nyotarules]

There’s a reason I despise Section 31 and you’re touching on it. It has no place in the future of that humanity, otherwise all we get is another United States, and we sure as hell don’t need another one, but with bigger weapons.

The UFP is the USA in space

 

[BillJ]

I want to point out that the genocidal Section 31 we saw during the Deep Space Nine era may not (for various possible reasons) have all the same tendencies and characteristics as the Section 31 we will see during the Discovery era.

They've hired Evil Space Hitler, so I imagine it is pretty close to its 24th century counterpart.

 

[Nerys Myk]

But no one told Uhura. When Scotty Informs Eminarians about the imminent destruction, she turns to Scotty, looking shocked. Were it a real general order, she obviously would have already known what it meant.

Or she's shocked someone would actually use it

No weirder than 'Condition Green.'

I had to look that one up.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

As I meant to imply with my chess quote (from "Whom Gods Destroy"), Kirk and Scotty do seem to have a code phrase or two worked out between them.

The safe word is "Corbomite."

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

They've hired Evil Space Hitler, so I imagine it is pretty close to its 24th century counterpart.

Let's see how inherently evil she turns out to be. The eating of other sentient beings might have just been a "thing [they] all grew up doing"

 

[Amaris]

The UFP is the USA in space

Ugh.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Let's see how inherently evil she turns out to be. The eating of other sentient beings might have just been a "thing [they] all grew up doing"

Peer pressure, man.

 

[Alan Roi]

.

The UFP is the USA in space

More like Canada, I think.

 

[Alan Roi]

Peer pressure, man.

And I expect Kelpians are very very tasty.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The UFP is the USA in space

1960s USA with the sexism and racism, or 1990s USA with the sexism and racism, or 2019 USA with the sexism and racism?

 

[Nerys Myk]

1960s USA with the sexism and racism, or 1990s USA with the sexism and racism, or 2019 USA with the sexism and racism?

More sexism but less racism.

 

[Vger23]

1960s USA with the sexism and racism, or 1990s USA with the sexism and racism, or 2019 USA with the sexism and racism?

Are there countries without sexism and racism that we can better compare the UFP to?

 

[Gonzo]

I would submit that having principles and values is more than "hoping for the best". If you don't apply your principles when things are difficult, you don't have them at all. Today we often compromise what we say we stand for when presented with a problem, and frankly it has a tendency to bite us on the arse. But even when it doesn't, it doesn't make it ok. Britain claims to be a liberal democracy which upholds the fundamental rights of humans, but has engaged in torture, illegal wars, illegal surveillance and restrictions, and now is looking at stripping radicalised, trafficked and raped children of citizenship out of fear. Star Trek has told us that humanity is capable of moving beyond our fears and holding principles which matter. This idea that war is a great teacher of hard lessons really needs to die out, and Star Trek has previously presented a society that has learnt that, as Kirk says, overcoming savagery is as simple and as complex as saying "I will not kill today".

Star Trek is make believe and has no real world relevance whatsoever as the outcome almost always ends with the supposed good guys winning in a clear cut black and white way which is ridiculous at times, this is why I am such a fan of some of the plotlines in DS9 such as bringing the Romulans into the war and Section 31's Founder virus, when you are stronger than your opponent its easy but when your back is to the wall that is when you really find out how far you are willing to go.

It is rarely so clear cut in the real world, it would be nice if everything and everyone felt and acted the same way, thing is if they did we wouldn't be here and the world would be a very different place, it would be a mistake to assume that it would be a better place for it.

Sometimes you aren't given a choice to kill or not by your opponent, you don't always get to decide if someone else is your enemy or not and they decide it for you, in which case you fight to survive or you surrender and die, no one really knows which they will choose until they are forced by situation or circumstance to find out.

 

[Amaris]

Are there countries without sexism and racism that we can better compare the UFP to?

Should we be able to compare the motives of a 21st century nation with a 23rd and 24th century Federation? It isn't too much to hope for a future where humanity realizes that imperialism, nation building, and Manifest Destiny are concepts better relegated to the dustbin of history, rather than something to which we should aspire. Instead, we have Section 31 to remind us that there are people in this century who still believe that having a force willing to commit unspeakable atrocities is a good thing to have around in that one.

Yes, Star Trek is make-believe, but the ideas behind it were good. Star Trek gave some people hope in a time when it seemed like we were all just going to annihilate one another at any moment. Section 31 is the antithesis of hope. It is despair and cynicism masking itself as a force for "good," because we need the reassurance that yes, we'll still be taking the lives of others in order to secure our own fortunes, and we'll be building our profit on the bones we crush underfoot. It ensures that the wickedness of modern humanity makes it well into the future, and that not only will it be tolerated, but encouraged to do what it does best, so long as we get what we want.

What characters in these stories did with hesitation and reticence, always searching for an alternative, Section 31 does with gusto, and without the slightest inkling of empathy. They're sociopathic at best, and now they're getting their own show because people like cool toys, and leather spandex. Nationalism gets to live on, spreading to the outer reaches of space, and humans get to keep on doing what they've been doing for thousands of years prior, never really learning, had to obliterate every last Klingon because they were a threat to our way of life, but damn isn't our spaceship pretty fucking awesome?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It wasn't just Kirk and Scotty. Perhaps the very real General Order 24 reads, "In the event that a foreign civilization is found to be militarily hostile to the UFP, and it is the judgment of the senior Federation representative present that diplomacy has been tried and failed, it is permissible to bluff with threat of planetary eradication to try to restore diplomatic efforts."

I'm OK with that.

 

[Bgt]

Was that the last episode of the previous showrunners/writers/whatever? Thank the Gods..
To be honest the whole spore network thingy confuses me, so I can't say I ever understood how it works or how on space they brought Doc back. Not that I really mind, I like having Doc back, it makes Stamets happy.

So is Lorka the only remaining 1st season main character they haven't brought back to life?
Cause it seems it's hard to stay dead in Discovery world.
I wanted to give it a 1...but I love Admiral Corwell so gave it a 3.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Was that the last episode of the previous showrunners/writers/whatever? Thank the Gods..
To be honest the whole spore network thingy confuses me, so I can't say I ever understood how it works or how on space they brought Doc back. Not that I really mind, I like having Doc back, it makes Stamets happy.

So is Lorka the only remaining 1st season main character they haven't brought back to life?
Cause it seems it's hard to stay dead in Discovery world.
I wanted to give it a 1...but I love Admiral Corwell so gave it a 3.

What main characters have died other than Lorca and Culber? Seems to me they're at 50%. And Culber's been scheduled tp return since he died. So it's hardly a surprise.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Are there countries without sexism and racism that we can better compare the UFP to?

Vatican City?

 

[Longinus]

What main characters have died other than Lorca and Culber? Seems to me they're at 50%. And Culber's been scheduled tp return since he died. So it's hardly a surprise.

I'm not convinced that Culber's return was really planned. It was just a lie they made up when people got upset about his death. It would be really terrifying if they actually had planned a resurrection story this stupid from the get go; as a result of a panic asspull it makes sense.