James Kirk in "Discovery"?

[Lord Garth]

I only think it's strange if people keep commenting on a show they don't watch. If they're watching it and following it, I don't see what's wrong with venting about how tedious they think it is. I disagree but it's a disagreement to have at a place like this.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Do we know for sure if he's actually the Commander of the place Spock was supposedly being held.

They seemed to know each other (the commander greeted him with a "Chris", and Pike returned calling him "Diego"), however it's odd that they are 'still communicating on screens'.

 

[XCV330]

They seemed to know each other (the commander greeted him with a "Chris", and Pike returned calling him "Diego"), however it's odd that they are 'still communicating on screens'.

Oh.. Pike will be downgrading his communication methods a bit more before long.







blink

 

[DaveyNY]

They seemed to know each other (the commander greeted him with a "Chris", and Pike returned calling him "Diego"), however it's odd that they are 'still communicating on screens'.

Ummmnn....
That's not an answer to the question I posed, but no matter.
I'm going to rewatch the episode when I get home form work after midnight tonight and try to figure it out for myself.

 

[Noname Given]

ST:TNG already went and ruined it all for us, by showing that Star Trek stories can also be not about Kirk, Spock and the Klingons... Otherwise, it would have been a perfectly valid storytelling approach for Star Trek to concentrate on just twenty or so people in a big universe. After all, that's what most forms of entertainment do.

Timo Saloniemi

What I find interesting is the small subset of TNG fans who decry ST: D's use of 'old' 23rd century characters like Pike and Spock - declaring "It's a shame these guys can't use more new characters they create themselves..." yet this same subset when looking ahead to the new Picard series all state: "Wow, and I can't wait to see Riker, Data, Work, Troi, Crusher,..."et al.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

IMHO if Kirk shows up in the third season - unless it's a tiny cameo - it's basically Discovery throwing in the towel/jumping the shark. At that point, why not just cancel the show and do a full-on TOS revival?

Kind of agree, but tbh, having Spock this early seems like the same kind of thing. Yeah, it's relevant to the characters we've had already, but perhaps it's still too soon.

Then again, as much as I like Discovery, I'd have little issue with it ending after three seasons as long as we were still getting more Trek... which it looks like we are.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Ummmnn....
That's not an answer to the question I posed, but no matter.
I'm going to rewatch the episode when I get home form work after midnight tonight and try to figure it out for myself.

Last episode Pike told Burnham Spock was in the "psychiatric unit on Starbase 5"
This episode, Pike said "Bryce, get me Captain Vela on starbase 5, tell him it's high priority"
He didn't seem surprised to see Diego, so the person answering was Captain Vela

So the only way Diego isn't the commander of the base is if he isn't actually in charge of Starbase 5, and Pike was for some reason going to a lacky who wasn't in charge rather than going to the head of the starbase (presumably an Admiral)

 

[Noname Given]

There's connecting to it, then there is the massive oversaturation we've had with Discovery.

Seriously what 'over saturation'? - They added ONE new character connected to Spock via a form of adoption.

Georiou IS a new character never mentioned before, but was/is a well respected Starship Captain.

All the ST: D crew are 'new' characters.

As for Starfleet bringing in Pike <--- He's considered 'Starfleet's Best' by Starfleet Command; and the have a Galaxy Wide mystery that damaged his regular ship (the 1701) so they sent him to take command of the ONE SHIP in Starfleet that has the capability to go anywhere instantly (a nice feature for a Galaxy Wide emergency.)

Is it really that horrible/over saturated that they're using know contemporary 23rd century characters, IN a 23rd century story that has Galaxy wide implications?

 

[eschaton]

What I find interesting is teh small subset of TNG fans who decry ST: D's use of 'old' 23rd century characters like Pike and Spock - declaring "It's a shame these guys can't use more new characters they create themselves..." yet this same subset when loking ahead to the new Picard series all state: "Wow, and I can't wait to see Riker, Data, Work, Troi, Crusher,..."et al.

1. The Picard series is about an already existing character, so it would make sense that people want to see other already existing characters that Picard knew.

2. The main actors from TNG, DS9, and VOY are all still alive and could reprise their old roles.

3. It's a sequel series, not a prequel, so there's not the same concern about potentially mucking up continuity by creating whole new aspects of the characters which haven't henceforth been seen.

Personally, I'd be fine with a straight-up TOS revival, if that's what they want to do. But I do think Discovery needs to succeed or fail on its own merits. And generally speaking, the attempts to tie Michael to Spock have been the weakest link this season.

 

[Hythlodeus]

and Kirk didn't actually kill Ben Finney in "Court Martial."

what?
next thing you tell me is that Jessica Fletcher didn't kill all those people in Cabot Cove.

 

[Noname Given]

1. The Picard series is about an already existing character, so it would make sense that people want to see other already existing characters that Picard knew.

2. The main actors from TNG, DS9, and VOY are all still alive and could reprise their old roles.

3. It's a sequel series, not a prequel, so there's not the same concern about potentially mucking up continuity by creating whole new aspects of the characters which haven't henceforth been seen.

Personally, I'd be fine with a straight-up TOS revival, if that's what they want to do. But I do think Discovery needs to succeed or fail on its own merits. And generally speaking, the attempts to tie Michael to Spock have been the weakest link this season.

Oh please everytime I hear the: "needs to succeed or fail on its own merits." bit, again:

- IN the TNG pilot they had Deforest Kelly as "Admiral McCoy" a 137 year old man who for some reason took a trip to what even the pilot described as "the edge of Federation space" aka Farpoint station JUST to get a look at the 1701-D?

- TNG's first regular episode past the pilot was "The Naked Now" - a remake of a classic episode of TOS, yet hell, they hadn't even really established the main TNG characters at this point (when TOS did it, it was the 7th episode filmed so yeah, the characters HAD some background at that point for the audience to latch on to). in the epsidoe they MADE sure to mention the 1701 AND Kirk.

- All throughout the first season they had a bunch of TOS model and props littered all over the background in various interior ship and conference room shots.

- Season 2 replaced Crusher with Doctor Leonard McCoy in EVERYTHING but gender - and tried (and spectacularly failed) to create a McCoy/Spock dynamic with Pulaski/Data, but the writers failed to realize that Data WASN'T Spock and it came across like she was a just a bigoted old lady berating an innocent child.
^^^
And this was across the first 46 episodes of TNG. (To date ST: D has aied 18 episodes.)

Again, you can try and dismiss this all you want, but the fact is, NO TNG did not start out trying to succeed or fail on it''s own merits; it TOO used (then 20 year old) aspects and popular characters from the franchise history to try and enhance and 'validate' itself when starting its run.

 

[valkyrie013]

For a general TOS character use in Disco(inferno). I for one have no problem with it as long as its not a gratuatis "oh hey" type of thing, thats fine. If Pike, or someone wants to make a quip about how an ensign, Lt. or cadet Kirk done this or that as an easter egg, thats fine.
If they want to have McCoy come on board as a low level doctor, not CMO, they can. Have them mention Scotty in trying to solve some technoboble. thats okay, there both in Starfleet and doing there job. Now, Checkov is like 15, so nope. Uhura is maybe a cadet, same with Sulu, maybe Tilly mention them or something, but thats about it.
Now, Have Captain Deker, or a Captain Nogura, or some other admiral or captain from Tos pop up, thats okay, there out there right now, doing there thing, if they get mentioned, seen on screen, even pop up on the ship, I have no problem with it.

 

[eschaton]

Again, you can try and dismiss this all you want, but the fact is, NO TNG did not start out trying to succeed or fail on it''s own merits; it TOO used (then 20 year old) aspects and popular characters from the franchise history to try and enhance and 'validate' itself when starting its run.

None of what you said is debatable. However, the following should also be noted.

1. TNG was purposefully set far enough into the future that most of the TOS characters would have been dead. They didn't have to set it nearly a century after TOS after all. They could have just as easily set it concurrent with the movies, allowing the TOS crew to come and go. Or they could have gone prequel. They made the choice to move ahead in large part to allow more freedom, with new characters and new antagonists.
2. Worf aside, TNG tried not to do much with the Klingons early on. Heart of Glory, A Matter of Honor, and The Emissary were the only Klingon episodes in the first two seasons
3. Similarly, TNG early on avoided the other "main antagonist" of TOS - the Romulans, with only two episodes in the first two seasons - even though they arguably ultimately used the Romulans as the primary antagonists for the show.
4. The first introduction of a TOS character (post the tiny and inconsequential McCoy cameo) was Sarek near the end of the third season. Later on there were additional fanwanky elements, like the Scotty episode and bringing in Spock for Unification. But the showrunners consciously avoided putting this stuff in too soon - something that comes across quite clearly if you read the 50-year mission.

Was the break perfect? Of course not! But I think there were manifestly less TOS callbacks in the first two seasons of TNG than Discovery has had to date. Of course, TNG only became more popular in the third season, when it became a bit more fanwanky, so arguably it's wrong of me to say a show should succeed or fail on its own merits.

 

[fireproof78]

Now, Have Captain Deker, or a Captain Nogura, or some other admiral or captain from Tos pop up, thats okay, there out there right now, doing there thing, if they get mentioned, seen on screen, even pop up on the ship, I have no problem with it.

I would prefer these types of characters to show up than the TOS crew for the most part. Just would be an interesting delving in to character history that I would like for the small bit parts in TOS. That's why I enjoy prequel series so much.

 

[The Wormhole]

I know in the novel series, I think according to Memory Beta, Kirk did command some other ship prior to the Enterprise.

Logically speaking he would have had to have. Command of one of Starfleet's twelve most advanced starships wouldn't be given to a newly promoted officer as his first command. Though that would also work against Kirk taking command of Disco, with it being such an important asset to Starfleet they're only going to choose experienced captains to command.

Harry Mudd has been fun, but and I wouldn't be surprised if we see Kor somewhere down the line, but where to stop? Do we want to revolve stories around Cyrano Jones? Matthew Decker? The Ferengi? The Organians?

Wasn't there a PA announcement for a Cadet Decker in season 1? That's likely Will Decker from TMP.

But the thing is, Kirk specifically says he lost "a" brother "once",

You're conveniently leaving out the part where he adds "but I got him back."

I wonder what time period the (supposedly in development) Star Fleet Academy show will take place in?

I kinda-sorta believe that more then heads will explode if it's set just before DISCOVERY.

When the rumours first started, my speculation was that it would be concurrent with Disco, for purposes of crossovers. Of course now that there is a spin-off concurrent with Disco in development and a 24th century show about to start filming in a few months, who the hell knows?

This episode, Pike said "Bryce, get me Captain Vela on starbase 5, tell him it's high priority"
He didn't seem surprised to see Diego, so the person answering was Captain Vela

Plus he's listed in the credits as Captain Diego Vela.

The first introduction of a TOS character (post the tiny and inconsequential McCoy cameo) was Sarek near the end of the third season. Later on there were additional fanwanky elements, like the Scotty episode and bringing in Spock for Unification. But the showrunners consciously avoided putting this stuff in too soon - something that comes across quite clearly if you read the 50-year mission.

I remember hearing that while the episode Sarek was being written there were heated arguments in the writer's room over whether or not Spock should be mentioned.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I actually kinda amazed that some folks are acting as though it's confirmed that Spock is actually a murderer. Have they never watched an American TV series before . . . or are they just grasping for another reason to bash DISCO?

Heck, as TV Tropes points out, this is a pretty familiar Trek plot:

"Occurs about once a series in the Star Trek franchise. Usually, a senior officer is accused of committing a crime under alien law, the evidence at the trial looks pretty damning, and then at the end the heroes present The Real Cause.

• In Star Trek: The Original Series:
  • In the episode "Journey to Babel": Ambassador Sarek was suspected of murdering the Tellarite ambassador. In fact, an Orion posing as the Andorian ambassador had done so.
  • In the episode "Wolf in the Fold": Jack the Ripper in energy-being form.
  • In "Court Martial", Kirk is accused of causing the death of one of his crewmembers.
• In Star Trek: The Next Generation:
  • In "A Matter of Perspective", Riker is accused of murdering an alien scientist (and putting the moves on said scientist's wife, although the details on that part vary depending on who's telling the story). It turns out that the scientist tried to kill Riker (without him even knowing) and it backfired spectacularly.
• In Star Trek: Deep Space Nine:
  • "Dax": Dax's previous host is a suspect in a thirty-year-old murder case."
    
    
    And yet we really think Spock is a murderer? Get real.

In fact, the trope was such an integral part of Trek that it ended up in Star Trek VI -- Kirk and Bones accused of murdering Gorkon -- a movie that was full of homages to past TOS tropes (Kirk's evil twin, Kirk gets the alien girl, Spock solves the mystery, Klingons with (almost) no ridges, etc...).

 

[fireproof78]

I remember hearing that while the episode Sarek was being written there were heated arguments in the writer's room over whether or not Spock should be mentioned.

What's funny is Picard mentions attending Sarek's "son's wedding" so it introduced a whole new wrinkle.

 

[Cake]

Considering that DIS already used Spock, Sarek, Amanda, Fenton and Stella Mudd, Pike and Number One and not even 20 episodes have aired so far, I would be kind of surprised, if Kirk doesn't appear in the series at one point in time.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don’t particularly need to see Kirk as an ensign, unless it has something to do with Kirk meeting Spock. Although I’ve always felt that he didn’t meet Spock until he became captain of the Enterprise.

That's a good point. There really is no canon information regarding Kirk and Spock's first meeting.

 

[The Wormhole]

I've always felt Kirk and Spock's conversation at the start of WNMHGB represents one of their earliest if not first conversations. I mean Spock only felt comfortable telling Kirk he had human ancestry, not a human mother.