Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x02 - "New Eden"

[Lord Garth]

Saru was as good as any past Starfleet captain on this episode. They need to give him the extra stripe and the gold shirt next year.

Team Saru for the win!

 

[Search4]

That was an ad lib by Frakes and Wiseman.

I assume she was heading to her quarters to get a uniform on, and then thought better of it.

 

[XCV330]

Didn't laugh then either. It's not funny.

I always sided with T-Rex in that scene. It was funny to me. Apparently not to everyone. A-holes dying in self-arranged justice just seems to feel right, sometimes

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[Kemaiku]

Not much to dislike for once, Tilly was great, pagans got a shout out as a major Earth religion and now we have more spore ghosts. 9.

 

[Alan Roi]

I disagree, it only takes three generations to turn a black family into a white one and vice versa dependant on their choice of reproductive partners, also if they lacked medical skill they might not even live out their natural lifespan of threescore and ten years plus another twenty

Not sure what you're disagreeing with here. Last I checked, "generation" and "lifespan" are 2 different words with 2 different meanings.

 

[Bgt]

More than you would expect. Besides, she is still new to the role.

So you are telling me that in American Navy for example, giddy officers run in the bridge half naked trying to persuade their captains they have a point, or they conduct dangerous experiments and get a pardon cause they were right ?
Interesting.

 

[Tuskin38]

So you are telling me that in American Navy for example, giddy officers run in the bridge half naked trying to persuade their captains they have a point, or they conduct dangerous experiments and get a pardon cause they were right ?
Interesting.

Starfleet isn’t a modern military, the comparison doesn’t work.

 

[DaveyNY]

Starfleet isn’t a modern military, the comparison doesn’t work.

And the Discovery is still considered a Scientific Ship, it's not really a Military Warship in the true sense, it just acted like one during the Klingon conflict and under the command of Lorca.
(and even he was somewhat lax when it came to Stamets & Tilly)

 

[oberth]

So you are telling me that in American Navy for example, giddy officers run in the bridge half naked trying to persuade their captains they have a point, or they conduct dangerous experiments and get a pardon cause they were right ?
Interesting.

the way things are handled on a us navy bridge will be a historical footnote by then

 

[XCV330]

So you are telling me that in American Navy for example, giddy officers run in the bridge half naked trying to persuade their captains they have a point, or they conduct dangerous experiments and get a pardon cause they were right ?
Interesting.

Starfleet leans more to "Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou" than the modern USN.
And initially it seems as if it was to have had more the character of an "Age of Sail" navy, though mostly that idea has been unexplored.

 

[DaveyNY]

I also seem to remember this type of thing being projected by Hollywood for other Military type entertainments dealing with the Military as well...

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[Bgt]

Starfleet isn’t a modern military, the comparison doesn’t work.

It is still military though, isn't it?
Ok they are explorers, scientists but they can use lethal force, they have a military structure of command, they follow orders, Burnham convicted by a Court Marital etc etc.
But lets not kid ourselves, they just want Tilly to be the fantasy of every "geek" (or the stereotype geek they have in mind) so the Star Trek "geeks" identify with her and her little triumphs.
Which I find cliche but still I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as they tone it down a bit.

 

[Tuskin38]

It is still military though, isn't it?

That's debatable

 

[oberth]

It is still military though, isn't it?
Ok they are explorers, scientists but they can use lethal force, they have a military structure of command, they follow orders, Burnham convicted by a Court Marital etc etc.
But lets not kid ourselves, they just want Tilly to be the fantasy of every "geek" (or the stereotype geek they have in mind) so the Star Trek "geeks" identify with her and her little triumphs.
Which I find cliche but still I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as they tone it down a bit.

yeah, and today's us navy dudes behave exactly like they did in in 1881?

 

[Noname Given]

True, but Trek historically hasn't been good with multiracial/international casting, and even Discovery's first season was very white bread anglo-American compared to The Expanse.

Are you REALLY going to go down this path? Compared to TNG - Disco is very multicultural. BTW you might want to gpo rewatch TOS - "The Cage" and also realize even back with the beginning of Star Trek, GR WASN'T the production staffer championing either women or multi-ethnic roles for Star Trek, that was done because of an NBC memo (where the NBC brass said "Hey we notice A LOT of minorities are watching TV, so the advertisers would like to capitalize on that..."

And remember - "I SPY" was one of the first shows with a Black co-lead (Bill Cosby) and that show was on the air (and getting good ratings a full year before 'Star Trek'. (Plus again, had "The Cage" been used as the template, you'd see white america...IN SPACE, all thorough the shows run.

You're comment is also interesting in that many of the detractors state ST: D has too much diversity that's to "SJWs" (aka "Social Justice Warriors")

Honestly, overall, I'd say ST: D is about as diverse as DS9 and ST: V was - and MORE diverse than TNG.

 

[fireproof78]

Peppard or GTFO.

Liam Neeson and I don't care if its wrong.

So you are telling me that in American Navy for example, giddy officers run in the bridge half naked trying to persuade their captains they have a point, or they conduct dangerous experiments and get a pardon cause they were right ?
Interesting.

Starfleet is not the American Navy, nor has Starfleet demonstrated that their officers behave with strict professionalism at all times. See Kirk and Admiral Bennett's exchange in Star Trek V, Dr. Pulaski's interactions with Data in TNG Season 2, a Lieutenant back talking to Kirk in the Corbomite Maneuver, and on and on.

Applying strict American military expectations is not appropriate in this instance. Starfleet has many aspects of it that are military but the strict professionalism often expected of service personnel is not one of them.

 

[Noname Given]

Someone needs to explain to me how it was funny. Because I did not laugh during his death and I keep seeing this assertion yet don't recognize it in the material at all.

I took it as the writers saying to the older 'TOS Fan' audience - "See...we're back in the 23rd century..." because it WAS a VERY TOS style death of a crewman 'extra'. (And although in became a Trope by Season 3 of TOS, in S1 and S2, many a blue shirt extra died as opposed to it ALWAYS being a Redshirt by S3.)
^^^
So, yeah, as one of those older TOS fans, I appreciated, how it was handled, saw it coming, and smiled at the execution. (Hell, Pike spent more time lamenting the guys demise than Kirk did. Sometimes Kirk's lament would be a two second facial expression; then on to the next story beat with ensign "what's his name's" death quickly forgotten by everyone.)

 

[fireproof78]

(Hell, Pike spent motre time lamenting the guys demise than Kirk did.

That's more to my point. I felt like Pike and Burnham treated it with more gravity than many other TOS deaths, and don't find the humor in the situation at all.

 

[oberth]

That's more to my point. I felt like Pike and Burnham treated it with more gravity than many other TOS deaths, and don't find the humor in the situation at all.

don't know whether there is fun it it, but that guy definately had it coming

with no redshirts (of any colour) buying it the guys who make discovery could be accused of their show not to be star trek at all, couldn't they?

i guess they can't have that

 

[eschaton]

Are you REALLY going to go down this path? Compared to TNG - Disco is very multicultural. BTW you might want to gpo rewatch TOS - "The Cage" and also realize even back with the beginning of Star Trek, GR WASN'T the production staffer championing either women or multi-ethnic roles for Star Trek, that was done because of an NBC memo (where the NBC brass said "Hey we notice A LOT of minorities are watching TV, so the advertisers would like to capitalize on that..."

And remember - "I SPY" was one of the first shows with a Black co-lead (Bill Cosby) and that show was on the air (and getting good ratings a full year before 'Star Trek'. (Plus again, had "The Cage" been used as the template, you'd see white america...IN SPACE, all thorough the shows run.

You're comment is also interesting in that many of the detractors state ST: D has too much diversity that's to "SJWs" (aka "Social Justice Warriors")

Honestly, overall, I'd say ST: D is about as diverse as DS9 and ST: V was - and MORE diverse than TNG.

Discovery did better - relatively speaking - than most Treks have in the past. I mean, I explicitly said Trek historically has not been good with multiracial casting - this isn't a recent thing. But I wouldn't call it as diverse as DS9. I mean, on DS9, there was exactly one human white guy - O'Brien. All the other white male actors played alien characters. Out of the human main cast members, only the Sisko family were Americans.

Keep in mind, when I'm saying "multiracial" I'm not talking about cast of all races though. I'm talking about casting multiracial actors - having a fair amount of light brown people who don't look like any one thing in particular. I mean, within the U.S. context the number of multiracial people is rising with every generation. A linear projection of current trends should suggest the future will be even more mixed (but of course, not completely so). Starfleet in particular is likely to be very multiracial, given many families are involved for multiple generations, and people are apt to meet their partners while in service.

Again, I contrast it with The Expanse because The Expanse is filmed in Toronto - just like Discovery - and the showrunner is a Trek alum (Naren Shankar). For example, I remember one subplot where Chrisjen Aversarala (an Indian character played by an Iranian actress), Bobbie Draper (character and actor of Polynesian ancestry) and Cotyar Ghazi (Indian? character played by Lebanese-American actor) are facing off against Jules-Pierre Mao (actor is Cambodian-American of Chinese/Vietnamese ancestry, playing a partially Chinese character). There are three protagonists and one antagonist onscreen - in an American/Canadian production - and not a single one is a white American. It was one of those things that blew my mind because I had never seen it done before in western sci-fi.