Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x01 - "Brother"

[Nerys Myk]

No they wouldn't have because it isn't part of the tone of the franchise, Do you honestly believe that we would see Picard flying through an asteroid field in a pod with crew members blowing up around him because they refuse to follow the most basic of fucking orders to visit simply, a ship that crashed months ago with most likely all lives lost on board? Of course not. Discovery is like that because it's written by a guy who didn't even watch or like Star Trek and is considered one of the biggest hack action movie writers in Hollywood.

Of course it is. That's why most of TOS's episodes feature a fight scene. Often with Kirk winding up with a torn shirt. It's why the term "redshirt" is a punchline. It's because there are always guys getting zapped by ray guns. being tossed off cliffs by androids and being blown up by explosive rocks.
Who is this "guy who didn't even watch or like Star Trek"? Not the guy currently in charge of Star Trek, that's for sure.

 

[Vger23]

I do love how Discovery fanboys can't actually defend how bad the writing is for this show so they just result to passive aggressive going high shit. Literally every single time since S1 E1.

We love it too. And we love you.

Nobody has to defend anything. We're in the advantaged position. The show being produced, aired and written is to our "fanboy" liking, last time I checked. You're the one in the disadvantaged position.

I have no obligation, need or motivation to defend anything. Not even a little bit for my amusement. So I'm at a loss for what your argument is.

 

[oberth]

It seems since last night the critical voices about DIS have come out of the woodwork more - both here and on the other sites I go to. I think it's important to break apart two different things. One of them is the question is the show well executed? The other is this a kind of show that I will enjoy? In my mind, they're two different things entirely.

I think there's no question at all that the Season 2 premier was more effective in virtually every way than what Season 1 tried to do. More effective VFX. More cohesive characterization. More effective balance between the main character and secondary characters. More naturalistic dialogue. Better use of visuals in storytelling. In every way it seems more polished and professional where Season 1 seemed at times oddly clunky.

However, the thing to remember is it's still - at this point - an action adventure show focused on Micheal Burnham. This isn't going to change. I don't have any expectation of getting a quiet character piece like The City on the Edge of Forever, The Inner Light, Family, Duet, The Visitor, Far Beyond the Stars, etc. It's just not that kind of show, and Kurtzman isn't interested in that kind of Trek. Just give up and engage with the show on the level that it's attempting to entertain you.

never thaught i'd agree with a cardassian

 

[LJones41]

I think there's no question at all that the Season 2 premier was more effective in virtually every way than what Season 1 tried to do.

"There's no question"? I beg your pardon. Are you trying to speak on everyone's behalf? Because you're NOT speaking on my behalf. Why not try speaking for yourself, for once?

 

[oberth]

"There's no question"? I beg your pardon. Are you trying to speak on everyone's behalf? Because you're NOT speaking on my behalf. Why not try speaking for yourself, for once?

did he say for any of us ? why did you clip his i think, ?

 

[Vger23]

You know somebody that would insult another person over something as silly as an opinion about a TV SHOW should have their head examined. Something is off there.

That wasn't an insult. I seriously figured you were fun at parties.

 

[Donker]

Just can't comment without insulting somebody, can you.

Because Discovery fanboys can't actually engage in any level of discussion beyond "well that's just your opinion, everyone else agrees it's the best so it's the best pew pew wahoo".

Unfortunately, I have seen similar shit on ALL of the other Trek shows. If I could count the number of fist fights that William Shatner had to fake on "Star Trek", I think I would have fallen asleep before I could finish.

There was action in other Trek shows, though it was not this tonally out of place over the top and didn't distract from the episode as much. Again, what called for this action sequence? What at all? Nothing, it exists because their focus group testing shows that big action setpiece = serotonin and Adrenalin release = brains turning off and people cheering it's why people come out of big stupid summer movies cheering about how awesome they are, and then realising a week later the movie made no sense and had no plot or characters.

as long as it's not overdone or that it overshadows the drama.

Which is exactly what it does in Discovery, if they didn't have the stupid pod sequence, escape sequence, basically everything pointless that took place on the asteroid, we could have got more time with the crew, more time people discussing theories and options, more time dedicated to the asteroid catch plot. But there isn't any of that stuff, because this show is written purely around jumping from action setpiece to action setpiece. We've already got now "We have to do this to SAVE THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE" seriously what is that, three times now?

Discovery S1 was basically Star Trek 4, Discovery S2 is already shaping up to be Star Trek 5. These are just Kelvin movies cut up into 40-50 minute chunks.

 

[oberth]

Because Discovery fanboys can't actually engage in any level of discussion beyond "well that's just your opinion, everyone else agrees it's the best so it's the best pew pew wahoo".


There was action in other Trek shows, though it was not this tonally out of place over the top and didn't distract from the episode as much. Again, what called for this action sequence? What at all? Nothing, it exists because their focus group testing shows that big action setpiece = serotonin and Adrenalin release = brains turning off and people cheering it's why people come out of big stupid summer movies cheering about how awesome they are, and then realising a week later the movie made no sense and had no plot or characters.


Which is exactly what it does in Discovery, if they didn't have the stupid pod sequence, escape sequence, basically everything pointless that took place on the asteroid, we could have got more time with the crew, more time people discussing theories and options, more time dedicated to the asteroid catch plot. But there isn't any of that stuff, because this show is written purely around jumping from action setpiece to action setpiece. We've already got now "We have to do this to SAVE THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE" seriously what is that, three times now?

Discovery S1 was basically Star Trek 4, Discovery S2 is already shaping up to be Star Trek 5. These are just Kelvin movies cut up into 40-50 minute chunks.

you don't like the 21st century?

 

[gblews]

Well, so much for the notion that DSC is going to turn into a yuk fest. The tone was just about the same as The Vulcan Hello, at least until the trouble started.

You could certainly see the budget on screen. The size and scope seemed "bigger" and the Fx sharp and creative.

Those who said Anson Mount, an actor I wasn't familiar with, would be great, were right. He is great as Pike, authoritative but with a light touch. Loved him asking the bridge crew's names specifically without giving their rank.

SMG seems to have gotten much more comfortable with the technobabble. She handled it very well. So far, it also seems they are continuing with her as the show's main protagonist, something that really separates DSC from the other spins. I'm cool with that.

Mary Wiseman, even better with a full season of Tilly under her belt. She was charming and funny. Stammets is definitely a fan.

I was glad to see Wilson Cruz' name in the regular cast credits, but seeing him only as a digital projection is less than satisfying.

I thought the respect given to the bridge crew was great. maybe TPTB heard the comments from some fans wanting more of them. Finally got a definitive pronunciation of Oweshkun's name.

I had forgotten that Tig Notaro was supposed to be in the cast, so it seemed like a bonus when she finally showed up. Got a Simon Pegg vibe from her.

So, young Spock was a little a-hole, what a shock.

Well, first episode makes me believe season 2 is right in line to be even better than season 1.

 

[DaveyNY]

Because Discovery fanboys can't actually engage in any level of discussion beyond "well that's just your opinion, everyone else agrees it's the best so it's the best pew pew wahoo".


There was action in other Trek shows, though it was not this tonally out of place over the top and didn't distract from the episode as much. Again, what called for this action sequence? What at all? Nothing, it exists because their focus group testing shows that big action setpiece = serotonin and Adrenalin release = brains turning off and people cheering it's why people come out of big stupid summer movies cheering about how awesome they are, and then realising a week later the movie made no sense and had no plot or characters.


Which is exactly what it does in Discovery, if they didn't have the stupid pod sequence, escape sequence, basically everything pointless that took place on the asteroid, we could have got more time with the crew, more time people discussing theories and options, more time dedicated to the asteroid catch plot. But there isn't any of that stuff, because this show is written purely around jumping from action setpiece to action setpiece. We've already got now "We have to do this to SAVE THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE" seriously what is that, three times now?

Discovery S1 was basically Star Trek 4, Discovery S2 is already shaping up to be Star Trek 5. These are just Kelvin movies cut up into 40-50 minute chunks.

Whatever...,
You seem to think that anybody who won't engage you on your level isn't worth your time beyond giving out insults.
Do you ever stop to think that perhaps most folks just don't wish to stoop to your level of discourse.
You flail at everyone who doesn't see it your way and then expect everyone to bow to your superior intellect.

Good luck with that.

 

[Vger23]

Because Discovery fanboys can't actually engage in any level of discussion beyond "well that's just your opinion, everyone else agrees it's the best so it's the best pew pew wahoo".

So, because people recognize your attitude and unwavering position, and immediately judge you as someone with whom debate is impossible, they're worthless fanboys deserving only of insults?

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Reyman]

Early days, but the audience score (198 users) on Rotten Tomatoes for season 2 is 38% vs 54% for season 1 (7405 users)

Maybe the new style of the show isn't as popular as it is with the crowd on here.

 

[oberth]

Early days, but the audience score (198 users) on Rotten Tomatoes for season 2 is 38% vs 54% for season 1 (7405 users)

Maybe the new style of the show isn't as popular as it is with the crowd on here.

how many votes?

 

[Succubint]

Please remember that there's a specific tiered pay and credit structure in the tv/film industry. Starring/Guest Starring/Co-Starring/featured extra/extra. The last two tiers are normally cast by a different person than the main casting director. They're the day players. Heck even co-stars are told up front how many episodes they are expected to feature in and there's no guarantee there will be any dialogue in every scene. An extra or featured extra tends to not have any lines scripted for them, they also usually do not get credited for their work.

I believe that all of the named bridge crew (Detmer, Owosekun, Airiam, Reese etc.) who had at minimum one line of dialogue are billed as co-stars. That implies that they are pretty low in the totem pole, but still relevant enough to earn character names and perhaps be brought back regularly to fill those same roles as needed. Having them on the bridge does not automatically mean they have to have significant story time dedicated to them, however. That's just an expectation by viewers due to how past series decided on their cast focus. DSC has always been up front on wanting to shake that up a bit and not be focused only on Captain and senior bridge crew as the main regular characters.

Note that Wilson Cruz has been upped to a starring regular this year, but Shazad Latif is now likely bumped down to a recurring guest star, along with Mary Chieffo's L'Rell.

Basically you can always tell how important a character is meant to be story-wise based on their billing and position in the credits.

Which leads to my point: the writers and producers never intended for the lesser known bridge crew characters to have much individual story time last season. They were not initially cast to be significant players in the main plots. However, this could change over time and characters can and do change their story status (which leads to their respective actors/actress getting different billing/pay). We got a minor glimpse of that when Connor and Owosekun got more to do in the MU section.

If certain lower tiered characters play well with audiences and writers would like to expand their back stories or development, then that's what will happen. It's possible that when these co-stars were first cast, or later in S2 negotiations, they were assured that their roles would be expanded over time and their characters would be given more to do eventually, to ensure the continued availability of the actors. We don't know what's in their individual contracts.

I like Detmer and Owosekun a lot. I'd love for them to become more prominent and for us to learn more about them as individuals. However, with a 14 episode season, I will understand if it that's not a priority for the writing staff.

 

[eschaton]

I kind of agree that the action in the episode was kinda shallow. It also didn't really work well from a dramatic perspective because CBS featured the asteroid belt flythrough so heavily in their promotional material, which took away any sense of awe the scene could have. It was also a blatant ripoff of a similar scene from STID. That said, it was only a few minutes of padding in the middle of the show, and zipped by much faster than Burnham's weird EVA flight in the pilot. The "action" scenes onboard the downed ship were basically standard Trek fare, done with higher production values. I did appreciate in general the story found a way to do "action" without a single phaser being fired though.

Also, the plot structure was really simple. We have a MacGuffin. We need to get to the MacGuffin. Oh, wait, there's a stranded ship - let's rescue some people! Okay, we rescued them. We've seen this plot before in Trek.

Why it worked - at least for me - is Brother showed an attention to character that the show lacked in Season 1. Fundamentally it's very, very hard to come up with a novel plot idea that makes coherent sense - particularly in a series with 750 or so different episodes/movies. What makes or breaks a story is the character work. And while the first season at times made me feel like the characters outside of Micheal were just intended as shallow plot devices, this episode at least treated them as people who had something to contribute to the story beyond merely saying or doing what was needed to move the chess pieces around the board.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The pod chase works perfectly fine for what it was: an active sequence of Pike working through the same hang-ups he discussed with Boyce over risk, sacrifice, and trust.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The pod chase works perfectly fine for what it was: an active sequence of Pike working through the same hang-ups he discussed with Boyce over risk, sacrifice, and trust.

He should have asked for a martini.

 

[oberth]

Please remember that there's a specific tiered pay and credit structure in the tv/film industry. Starring/Guest Starring/Co-Starring/featured extra/extra. The last two tiers are normally cast by a different person than the main casting director. They're the day players. Heck even co-stars are told up front how many episodes they are expected to feature in and there's no guarantee there will be any dialogue in every scene. An extra or featured extra tends to not have any lines scripted for them, they also usually do not get credited for their work.

I believe that all of the named bridge crew (Detmer, Owosekun, Airiam, Reese etc.) who had at minimum one line of dialogue are billed as co-stars. That implies that they are pretty low in the totem pole, but still relevant enough to earn character names and perhaps be brought back regularly to fill those same roles as needed. Having them on the bridge does not automatically mean they have to have significant story time dedicated to them, however. That's just an expectation by viewers due to how past series decided on their cast focus. DSC has always been up front on wanting to shake that up a bit and not be focused only on Captain and senior bridge crew as the main regular characters.

Note that Wilson Cruz has been upped to a starring regular this year, but Shazad Latif is now likely bumped down to a recurring guest star, along with Mary Chieffo's L'Rell.

Basically you can always tell how important a character is meant to be story-wise based on their billing and position in the credits.

Which leads to my point: the writers and producers never intended for the lesser known bridge crew characters to have much individual story time last season. They were not initially cast to be significant players in the main plots. However, this could change over time and characters can and do change their story status (which leads to their respective actors/actress getting different billing/pay). We got a minor glimpse of that when Connor and Owosekun got more to do in the MU section.

If certain lower tiered characters play well with audiences and writers would like to expand their back stories or development, then that's what will happen. It's possible that when these co-stars were first cast, or later in S2 negotiations, they were assured that their roles would be expanded over time and their characters would be given more to do eventually, to ensure the continued availability of the actors. We don't know what's in their individual contracts.

I like Detmer and Owosekun a lot. I'd love for them to become more prominent and for us to learn more about them as individuals. However, with a 14 episode season, I will understand if it that's not a priority for the writing staff.

i know they aren't main cast

didn't say story time - i said 'aye, sir' and such stuff

taking half the bridge crew to away missions was always stOOpid - from a practical pov not a tv-show pov

 

[Reyman]

how many votes?

Audience score of 38% on rotten tomatoes is from 198 votes. That's roughly the same number who have voted in the poll here and the average score here is roughly 90%.

Different voting systems, but it still gives you a rough idea.

 

[oberth]

Audience score of 38% on rotten tomatoes is from 198 votes. That's roughly the same number who have voted in the poll here and the average score here is roughly 90%

probably less casual viewers here, don't you think? if i (coincidentally) came into a c&w concert and could be arsed to vote on it i'd probably wouldn't vote 8/10 like i did here