Klingon change for season 2?

[Tuskin38]

Also, Nick Meyer directed and wrote the screenplay for ST6, and was also a writer/consultant for DSC.

Coincidence?

 

[Noname Given]

ENT did do a bit to make male Orions look a bit different, including casting very muscular guys, and putting on what looked like various small biomechanical implants on their heads and bodies.

In contrast, in DIS, they were just green people.

ENT showed Orion Slavers at one of their main Slave Trading hubs; and again showed one of their Slave ships. I got the impression the Orions on Q'nos were all types (Pirates/Slavers/Civilians, etc.

Somehow, I don't believe anybody is going to get away with calling her a "sex slave" to her face.

Draxx called her a "Green whore" to her face. (in the first GotG)

 

[DaveyNY]

ENT showed Orion Slavers at one of their main Slave Trading hubs; and again showed one of their Slave ships. I got the impression the Orions on Q'nos were all types (Pirates/Slavers/Civilians, etc.


Draxx called her a "Green whore" to her face. (in the first GotG)

.. and Starlord (Peter) had to intervene to keep her from tearing Draxx apart.

 

[Yistaan]

It occurred to me that the Klingons in Discovery always doing evil things and saying how it's in the name of Kahless would give the Federation the impression that Kahless is a very evil Klingon. It ties in with how Kirk and crew imagined Kahless in 'The Savage Curtain' (I guess they imagined him as an Augment virus Klingon because they likely had no idea why some Klingons had smooth heads and others not--Section 31 likely covering up the incident, the Klingons not being forthcoming about it, and the 100 years of isolation since Archer's time. Kirk thought smooth headed Klingons was just another type of Klingon race).

Kirk and the crew likely having fought in the Discovery Klingon war would give them exposure to all sorts of Klingon enemies screaming they will wipe out the Federation in the name of Kahless. And it stuck in their minds even to the Savage Curtain over a decade later.

I think the Kahless thing was also an unsubtle jab at how religious fundamentalists will go on and on about their deity in the real world while conducting actions completely contrary to actual deity's teachings (arguably made easier that real holy books often have many contradictions).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Now they're using bottleneck effect to explain makeup differences.

Ok, anything that gets rid of the terrible makeup job from the first season I'm fine with. Sure, great houses settled on different planets and have bottleneck effects. Humans have just as huge differences.

And maybe that's part of the thing Klingons do not discuss, maybe there's a genetic purity push at some point that wants to project a united Kronos and does not want to discuss that for hundred of years inbreeding made Klingon houses' genetic makeup very different, even more different than humans evolving on different continents.

Ok. I accept this explanation if it makes the terrible makeup job from S1 go away.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I remember people here saying that, but not sure if it ever turned out to be substantiated or not. In this video around 2:40 you can see that at least one of the extras is indeed in makeup on set.

And James Mackinnon discussed preparing Orion makeup with TrekMovie: "It was four colors we have to spatter and spackle on there just to give it life and depth. Just so it’s not a solid blue, solid green, solid any color character..."

(Hetrick's comments there also make it sound as if it were intentionally bluer, too. Yet, also note that he refers to lighting and the actor's skin color being factors that need to be compensated for "so that when light goes through it and bounces back to your eye it doesn’t look like a dude in blue paint.")

Further, I just discovered by glancing at Memory Alpha that the script for "The Cage" apparently contains a cut line—"Do any of you have a green one?"—suggesting they may have been intended from the very beginning to come in other colors besides just green, FWIW.

-MMoM

Hetrick was one of the judges on Syfy's Face Off, a creature makeup competition show. It goes a lot into what makes a successful makeup versus a failed one. One of the important things is skin tone. Nothing has a single color skin, it's always various shades and imperfections and in humans there's a lot of red because of our blood. You also have to cover up the actual skin and make the colors pop in the ways you want. It's not just painting someone green, there's a lot to it.

The blue is probably to balance out the natural skin color, allowing the green to show up better.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

General Chang had similar views as T'Kuvma, he was afraid of the Federation destroying Klingon culture.

He was also bald... hmm.

Technically I think Chang had hair.

At least, I'm 100% certain my Chang action figure I had as a kid had this little rat tail in the back, and I can find this from G-Force models: http://www.gforcemodels.com/gforce_kits/chang/full-hair.html, though I sadly can't seem to find any actual screenshot from the movie that definitely shows the back of his head...

 

[Timo]

Well, the eyebrows and the mustache are quite prominent, too... So yes, he had hair. He just happened to be bald. Insofar as Picard was bald, at any rate.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Well, the eyebrows and the mustache are quite prominent, too... So yes, he had hair. He just happened to be bald. Insofar as Picard was bald, at any rate.

Timo Saloniemi

Picard didn't have a rat-tail in the back.

 

[Timo]

But he wore laurels.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Awesome Possum]

Picard didn't have a rat-tail in the back.

Not since the crew had that intervention. Data thought it was cool though.

 

[Lord Garth]

ENT did do a bit to make male Orions look a bit different, including casting very muscular guys, and putting on what looked like various small biomechanical implants on their heads and bodies.

In contrast, in DIS, they were just green people.

I thought the Orion Men in ENT looked like a bunch of bald, muscle-bound brutes. That's okay for some of them, I guess. But I prefer the diversity of body types in DSC. Not to mention hair...

... which would be nice if they gave the Klingons back.

 

[Rahul]

Just as with every other species, there's plenty of room for variation in Orion skin tones. Marta from "Whom Gods Destroy" (TOS) wasn't nearly so green as the illusory Vina, when seen under flat lighting:

And just for good measure...

Orion female in "The Time Trap" (TOS):

Orion males in "The Pirates Of Orion" (TAS):

Orion males in "Borderland" (ENT):

Orion males in "Will You Take My Hand?" (DSC):

-MMoM

Great collection.

You know, the thing is, I'm always for more variation in alien make-up.
The problem is, DIS didn't gave us more variation. Like with the klingon, they just exchanged the "generic" look. And then gave everyone the same. In this case a vastly inferiour one.

I don't know if it's the lightning, or the fact the DIS designers seem to be deadly afraid of using any other color than blue and grey, but the fact remains the Orions have never looked more like simply wrong-colored humans than on DIS - which is ironic, since that's what they've always been. Just normaly made by guys who have a better understanding of color and light.

 

[Rahul]

I don't see the problem with the Orions. They're just in the dark.

Re: What colors are the Orions?

It's that awful dress-thing again, isn't it?

 

[Jinn]

It's very obviously blue and black.

 

[jaime]

It's very obviously blue and black.

But it would look better if it was keeping to its TOS design...

 

[Gonzo]

I wish they would just move away from the Klingons. Seriously, because it is Star Trek doesn't mean Klingons have to be in every single iteration.

Some early Romulans or Cardassians would be cool.

Maybe even the Breen.

It was always assumed we would see the augment virus status at some point.

 

[Gonzo]

I wish they would go with the designs that were done for ST:ID.

Kor

I would have been fine with the original TOS look due to the augment virus with a breakthrough coming during the series to bring them towards what we saw in TNG.

Or straight in with the TNG look as the augment virus has been solved already.

What we got was generic alien of the week which is a shame.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I just reached "The Drumhead" in my slowly ongoing TNG re-watch yesterday, and I have to wonder if the "Ba'ltmasor Syndrome" mentioned there—for which the jaded Klingon exobiologist J'Dan takes regular injections, but about which nothing more is ever stated, thus leaving a conveniently blank slate should any retroactive connection be desired—might come up here. And in that thought, J'Dan's words of accusation can't help but stand out to me...

J'DAN: The blood of all Klingons has become water! Since the Federation alliance, we have turned into a nation of mewling babies! Romulans are strong! They are worthy allies! They do not turn Klingons into weaklings, like you!"



-MMoM

 

[Kor]

General Chang had similar views as T'Kuvma, he was afraid of the Federation destroying Klingon culture.

He was also bald... hmm.

I kind of pointed this out the other day.

Technically I think Chang had hair.

At least, I'm 100% certain my Chang action figure I had as a kid had this little rat tail in the back, and I can find this from G-Force models: http://www.gforcemodels.com/gforce_kits/chang/full-hair.html, though I sadly can't seem to find any actual screenshot from the movie that definitely shows the back of his head...

The courtroom scene, and the moment just before his ship gets blown up.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=501&page=6
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=97&page=4

Years ago I used these to make a General Chang character skin for the game VOY: Elite Force. I wish I knew what I did with the files.

Kor