Kirk's 5 year officer program at SFA started in 2252. Obsession is in 2268, 11 years before is 2257.
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There's nothing on screen in TOS that says when Kirk started at Starfleet Academy. Actually TNG may shed some light on things. "Coming of Age" states that students can join Starfleet Academy at 16.
Which means he started in 2250. Meaning he would be done with the four year portion (which for all we know Kirk could've finished in three) in 2253/4. We have no idea how command school would be structured, as it is seemingly like a Master's Degree course. Which Kirk could've done at any time. Maybe when he came back as an instructor.
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From what I gather, actually a fair amount. Especially those who fought in Europe in WWII....more than those who fought in the Pacific.
Plus, it's worth noting that they were drafting men up to the age of 45. My father's unit in the Pacific in WWII included a man who had fought on the German side in WWI as a machine gunner.
Shore Leave (2267) established that 15 years before that episode that Kirk was referred to as a 'plebe, ' plebe' is normally slang for a freshman, so that would be his first year.
Memory-Alpha says officers spend 5 years at the academy, but I'm not sure what their source is.
Older men might. But the average age of a draftee in WWII was 26. So I'm not sure there much beyond "yeah, we've these guys before".
The term is "plebe".
"Pleb" is derogatory slang for a low-class person.
"Pleb" is derogatory slang for a low-class person.
"Bread and Circuses".
Many of those young men had family members who were lost in WWI. It's doubtful that it was all that distant from their thoughts.
Nothing lower than a freshman.
Too late
Thoughts but not necessarily words.
So now you don't take TOS as fact?Likely about as accurate as Kirk and Khan's "fifteen years" from TWoK.
As soon as I provide evidence you just ignore it.
Wait a minute. You and others beat us over the head with things like "early season weirdness" or "it's just one line" that Discovery doesn't have to follow, then have the audacity to cry foul if every reference isn't followed with absolute devotion by others?
You got me, it was a contradiction. The preponderance of evidence has Kirk being in the Academy a couple years earlier than the fifteen. If it is 2266 (which lets be honest the years are guesswork, working backwards from TNG's 2364), then fifteen years would have Kirk starting in 2251 and graduating from the four year portion in 2255 (or '54 if he does it in three).
I wonder if there might be something to what Nerys Myk said. I can't tell.
Eh I don't do that one, I was defending emotional Spock remember?
This is my mini-zen. I have lots of fun talking Trek with you guys. It is even more fun when we don't agree on everything.
BillJ, based on these debates... I'm surprised you like anything from the Kelvin Films or ENT, or anything pre-TOS in general at all. Let's look at some examples for a moment and judge them by the same standards you judge DSC by.
"Broken Bow" --> About Earth's Starfleet. They understandably want to break from of the Vulcans who've had a stronghold on them for almost 90 years. What happens? They run into the Klingons! To boot, they don't even look like TOS Klingons! The opening scene has a Klingon running through a farmer's crops! The first episode with the first Warp 5 ship deals with the Klingons? Why do they need the Klingons? Why can't they just focus on the Suliban? Are the Suliban not interesting enough? And why do they come from the 26th Century? Can't the 22nd Century stand on its own? This is judging "Broken Bow" by the same standards you judge DSC by.
Star Trek Into Darkness --> Khan is white! We all know that Khan is an Indian played by a Mexican! Couldn't they have had a Mexican guy play Khan? And the Klingons! Look at them! They look nothing like in TOS! They don't even look anything like in TNG! Oh, and Section 31! Fanwank! Why do they have to have Section 31? Can't they come up with anything new? Fanwank! And Carol Marcus? What purpose does she serve? Can't Kirk chase after someone else? Carol Marcus is all about being Kirk's love interest! And then there's Admiral Marcus! Does he have to be the father of Carol Marcus? WTF?! He's a character tied to another character (Carol) who's already tied to yet another character! (Kirk) Double-Fanwank! Oh! And Kirk is revived by Khan blood. Khan blood? Did nine-year-olds write this? And they mentioned Harry Mudd! Harry Mudd is even more fanwank! What does it add to the story?! They couldn't have gotten another shuttle from somewhere else? Why can't this film stand on its own? Once again, judging STID by the standards you judge DSC.
ENT is your third favorite series. STID is your favorite film behind TMP. But. If you judged them by the same criteria you judge DSC, you wouldn't like them at all.
"Broken Bow" --> About Earth's Starfleet. They understandably want to break from of the Vulcans who've had a stronghold on them for almost 90 years. What happens? They run into the Klingons! To boot, they don't even look like TOS Klingons! The opening scene has a Klingon running through a farmer's crops! The first episode with the first Warp 5 ship deals with the Klingons? Why do they need the Klingons? Why can't they just focus on the Suliban? Are the Suliban not interesting enough? And why do they come from the 26th Century? Can't the 22nd Century stand on its own? This is judging "Broken Bow" by the same standards you judge DSC by.
Star Trek Into Darkness --> Khan is white! We all know that Khan is an Indian played by a Mexican! Couldn't they have had a Mexican guy play Khan? And the Klingons! Look at them! They look nothing like in TOS! They don't even look anything like in TNG! Oh, and Section 31! Fanwank! Why do they have to have Section 31? Can't they come up with anything new? Fanwank! And Carol Marcus? What purpose does she serve? Can't Kirk chase after someone else? Carol Marcus is all about being Kirk's love interest! And then there's Admiral Marcus! Does he have to be the father of Carol Marcus? WTF?! He's a character tied to another character (Carol) who's already tied to yet another character! (Kirk) Double-Fanwank! Oh! And Kirk is revived by Khan blood. Khan blood? Did nine-year-olds write this? And they mentioned Harry Mudd! Harry Mudd is even more fanwank! What does it add to the story?! They couldn't have gotten another shuttle from somewhere else? Why can't this film stand on its own? Once again, judging STID by the standards you judge DSC.
ENT is your third favorite series. STID is your favorite film behind TMP. But. If you judged them by the same criteria you judge DSC, you wouldn't like them at all.
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Just because the Feds & Klingons know about the Organian planet, doesn't mean either of them have a clue at this point in time, about what kind of beings they really are.
Hell Ayelborne even admits in the Errand of Mercy episode that they have hidden their actual form from outsiders on purpose.
They only reveal themselves to Kirk to show the folly in fighting a war he really doesn't want.
It makes perfect sense that a planet and it's 'pre-warp-drive' civilization are being left alone and why the Organians didn't become involved during the Discovery Era...
It wasn't being fought on their planet.
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