USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[ITDUDE]

And yet the exterior resembles the TOS design a good deal more than “remotely”. Which seems contradictory. Silly, even.

They have a scale. Everything has to be "at least 25% different" from rest of Star Trek history.
Sometimes it's close-ish to rest of Trek (phasers) sometimes it's completely different (D7), most of the time it's different enough just to be annoying (Klingons). You know what they are trying to show, yet we also know that it's different just for the (merchandising) sake of being different.

 

[Rahul]

With what? That the Enterprise in DSC looks very similar to the TOS design? That it’s contradictory to have the inside look like the disco but the outside look like the TOS ship? Or that it’s unnecessary to describe it as “silly”?

Well, design is a matter of taste, and that is extremely different.
For example, I personally find the Kelvin-timeline update of the Enterprise (both the model and the set design) to be much more faithful to the original than the Discovery one (my other misgivings with those films notwithstanding).

Why? Because of the style.
The JJprise has the same, updated style as the original one. Functional and elegant, a bit of a retro-style, with funky angles, brigthly light, a bit colorful, and overall a very friendly look.

The Discoprise OTOH takes much more design elements one to one over from the original. But the style is extremely different. Instead of elegance, it mainly works on brutalistic design choices. That radically changes the entire tone of everything, the sets, the models. Which would fit much better with military SF like Battlestar Galactica, or something from "The Expanse".

Even ENT got that right, while their sets were much more fake-realistic, with sharp edges and lines, akin to a submarine, they still used a more friendly design language overall.
The Discoprise really doesn't. It looks like something the Sowjets or fascist era Italy would built. Wheras all other iterations of Star Trek had their optimistic and open-minded worldview built right into their sets and props.

 

[fireproof78]

The Discoprise doesn't. It looks like something the Sowjets or fascist era Italy would built. Wheras all other iterations of Star Trek had their optimistic and open-minded worldview built right into their sets and props.

Due credit to @The Lensman

 

[Jadeb]

You make an interesting point, Rahul. I will have to think about that.

I prefer the Discoprise to the Abramsprise, I think. But both suffer from a lack of restraint. The Abrams' version's has those roided-up nacelles, making it look like it's overcompensating, and the Discoprise is a muddle of borrowed ideas topped off with those garish saucer lights.

The genius of the Jeffries design is its simplicity, which, unfortunately, doesn't fit easily in the blockbuster mindset that has infected the franchise.

 

[Rahul]

You make an interesting point, Rahul. I will have to think about that.

I prefer the Discoprise to the Abramsprise, I think. But both suffer from a lack of restraint. The Abrams' version's has those roided-up nacelles, making it look like it's overcompensating, and the Discoprise is a muddle of borrowed ideas topped off with those garish saucer lights.

The genius of the Jeffries design is its simplicity, which, unfortunately, doesn't fit easily in the blockbuster mindset that has infected the franchise.

...lack of restraint... That's definitely an apt description of the JJprise (and the Discoprise)!

I think the genius of Jeffries design is basically the perfect arrangement of shapes.
A saucer, three cylinders, a few connecting struts - arranged in a way to become the most iconic starship shape in history. Perfectly balanced, elegant, graceful. Any yet also functional.

IMO even with the modern blockbuster/action mindset you can super easily make a faithfull update - if you keep the same shapes!

The original refit is a perfect example - though even there, the radical change of the warp nacelles and struts make it almost a completely new entity, distinct of the original. Funnily, since exchaning the engines is the most believable part of the ship overhaul.

The JJprise has a bit of the problem that it distorts those shapes a bit too much. The nacelles are to close to each other (the ship doesn't look balanced from the top, only from front/back and side), and a bit too front-heavy. The saucer is too wide compared to the other elements, and the secondary hull too small, which messes with the dimensions the the width of the ship (Though I still like it very much!)

The Discoprise has two problems - the reduced height robs it of it's elegance, and gives it more of an agressive fighting stance, as do the other brutalistic edges and corners that are even on the model from the 60s a bit more rounded, as well as the dark color palette. The other thing is the weird mish-mash of using original and refit-elements, both of which are super well defined and iconic designs, that gives it a bit of an unclear and arbitrary mashed-up identity.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

The JJprise has the same, updated style as the original one. Functional and elegant, a bit of a retro-style, with funky angles, brigthly light, a bit colorful, and overall a very friendly look.

I’d not thought of the JJprise that way - but I agree it does have that retro vibe as opposed to the ahem steampunk vibe of Discovery (ok steampunk is taking it a bit too far)

The Discoprise OTOH takes much more design elements one to one over from the original. But the style is extremely different.

Definitely. I actually think the discoprise design doesn’t go far enough with the DSC aesthetic (seriously - it stands out next to the disco and that’s even including all the unnecessary changes they’ve made to her). The DSC Enterprise - I think by design - has deliberately alluded to the Jeffries design more than JJ did.

Because it’s supposed to be the same universe and all that jazz.

In fact, the discoprise is supposed to be the same ship as in TOS. So the expectation that it would look similar inside isn’t as silly as has been asserted elsewhere.

...unless refit/reboot/admiral this is an almost totally new enterprise...

But when I look at the JJprise TOS isn’t so much evoked as it is slightly suggested - because that was a reboot. I still don’t like the JJprise but she definitely has a friendly vibe about her (never thought about it that way either but you’re right!).

The discoprise screams TOS because it’s meant to - to make us all think it’s all part of the same story just “updated” or “visual reboot” or “recast” or whatever euphemism we want to use for “pretend TOS never existed because it’s cheesy and embarrassing”*

*not my personal views by the way - this is the feeling I get when some of these changes seem to be made in an attempt to make Star Trek “modern” and “cool”. Style over substance and all that.

So when I look at the discoprise I’m expecting it to look more like the Enterprise inside because it’s way more suggestive of TOS than the JJ stuff ever intended to be.

And since the outside of the discoprise doesn’t even look that much like the Discovery (cf the disco at the side of the shenzhou and all those other square-nacelled Eavesisms) I think it’s contradictory to have the inside of the discoprise be redresses of the disco sets. That, to me, is just as silly as the expectation that the Enterprise would look like, well, the Enterprise.

If the bridge doesn’t have a gooseneck viewer at what will eventually be sulu’s station *balls fists*

 

[Groppler Zorn]

the reduced height robs it of it's elegance,

Also this ^

It’s like the discoprise is slouching.

The prime Enterprise looked like she was standing tall with that long neck of hers.

 

[Jadeb]

A tall ship and a star to steer her by, and all that.

 

[Jadeb]

I don't know if I find the JJPrise friendly, per se. Those hot rod nacelles have an aggressiveness to them that I've always found out of place on the Enterprise. But the color and lighting -- the overall sunniness -- give it an edge over the dim, dark Disco version. At least in this regard. (Maybe that will change when we see more of the D-E.)

 

[Ronald Held]

Now three visual continuities: TOS, TOS-R TOS-DSC??

 

[XCV330]

Now three visual continuities: TOS, TOS-R TOS-DSC??

and TAS

 

[Groppler Zorn]

A tall ship and a star to steer her by, and all that.

Melville

 

[Jinn]

and TAS

I think we should call them "TOSCLAS", "TOSTAS", "TOSREM" and "TOSDIS" just because it sounds nicer that like

 

[XCV330]

I think we should call them "TOSCLAS", "TOSTAS", "TOSREM" and "TOSDIS" just because it sounds nicer that like

I'm going to need a flow chart to watch tv. ill just call it all star trek

 

[dahj]

Did someone say toasties?

 

[Jinn]

Did someone say toasties?

Yes, how did you know?

 

[Mudd]

I think we should call them "TOSCLAS", "TOSTAS", "TOSREM" and "TOSDIS" just because it sounds nicer that like

This is why I'd like to gracefully avoid disputes about visual continuity. Whole different can of worms.

 

[Mudd]

I don't know if I find the JJPrise friendly, per se. Those hot rod nacelles have an aggressiveness to them that I've always found out of place on the Enterprise. But the color and lighting -- the overall sunniness -- give it an edge over the dim, dark Disco version. At least in this regard. (Maybe that will change when we see more of the D-E.)

Someone talking about designing another sf series discussed this in terms of an "inviting" visual universe. Up until recently, that was part of what Trek had. Abrams and his designers recognized that this was key, and enlarged upon it - with notable exceptions - in the JJVerse. Really, Starfleet and the Federation have never been more beautiful than they were in Star Trek Beyond.

 

[dahj]

Yes, how did you know?

I got peckish.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Melville

John Masefield