I never said they were. I was speaking of the broader literary trope, parenthetically acknowledging that Luke in ANH was arguably similar. You're mistaking something that was clearly marked as a peripheral sidebar for the main point, which is odd.
Indeed,
it was odd that you were arguing that they were arguably similar in any way, which is why I argued the point, because they're not even remotely similar, much less arguably.
Also odd is that you left off the entire second part of the post where I did address the other issues you mentioned, and said how the film doesn't actually make the subversive point people think it does, because the hothead doesn't learn a damn thing. But then you've been cherry picking what you want to see and ignoring that which you don't throughout this discussion, so that's no big surprise.
I was also making a point about how the character traits and lessons in
A New Hope make for a much better example to learn from than those in
TLJ, which is apparently, behave like a total crapsack and get everyone that's counting on you killed and we'll keep giving you chances and letting you lead, because everyone else is dead now thanks to you.
Weird. It's almost like the film was trying to subvert the idea that the hothead hero isn't always right...how strange.
But the film failed utterly in its goal of demonstrating that, and learned nothing from its failure, because the hothead "hero" never learned from his mistakes, kept right on making them, and never faced any consequences for the thousands of people he got killed in the process. It's not subversive, it's exactly the kind of movie you all think it's criticizing where the hothead goes rogue, gets a ton of people killed, but gets rewarded in the end despite all the horrible things that he's done. Poe got a promotion by process of elimination, and he was the one who eliminated everyone. He failed upwards and rose to the level of his own incompetence, and then exceeded it. Maybe the Peter Principle in the Star Wars Universe can be called the Poe Principle, and involve a lot more death.
“Subverting expectations! Well, that’s not what I expected! It therefore is terrible. I suggest, nay, demand a boycott! Let us set our web browsers to rottentomatoes.com and vote negatively on this film,” said the entitled fanboy.
That's a cheap shot to bring up here. No one in this current discussion has said anything like that. I have structural, consistency, and character issues with TLJ galore, but I'm not pissed that it had women and minorities as main protagonists (quite the opposite), I don't think Rian Johnson or Kathleen Kennedy are ruining Star Wars or my childhood or should be fired, I don't mess with the film's ratings on IMDb or RottenTomatoes, and I'm not boycotting anything and still love the franchise. So don't lump us all in with the hostile man-child neckbeards just because they happen to have a completely different set of complaints about the movie that are sexist, racist, entitled, and childish. This is why I didn't get involved in the TLJ review threads up here initially, because you always wind up getting lumped in with the douchebags.
