Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[fireproof78]

In space it shouldn't matter. Why were TIE bombers not similarly encumbered?

In Star Wars, it does matter.

TIEs are famously cheap and designed to be lighter.

Not meaning to pick on you in particular but I too watched (most of) it again tonight. And I found myself even more engaged. You’re absolutely entitled to your opinion. I’m still just so surprised at the chasm between those who enjoyed and those who didn’t.

Same here. It is becoming quite baffling.

I am attempting to think of a time in the real world when a commander did not inform their subordinates about a plan and the plan succeeding. I can not think of one.

Not that this will change minds, but Poe demonstrated a lack of willingness to follow orders, even when given the reason, which Leia tried to do with the bombing run. He then sends Finn and Rose on a mission without consent, operating outside the chain of command again.

Why in the world would Holdo trust him with the details of the plan? Why? He should be relieved of duty and court martialed.

 

[Campe]

This is a deeply divisive film with 91% of critics praising it and 48% of non-critics liking it.

It is a deeply divisive film. No question. There was another Star Wars film that was just as deeply divisive, if not more so, at the time of its release.

It was called The Empire Strikes Back.

There’s a similarity to both in the idea that Empire and Last Jedi are hard movies. You don’t get all your answers and things don’t happen how you expect them.

The Last Jedi presents a world that is not perfect. Luke Skywalker isn’t the end-all, be-all hero. He’s a man, who can’t live into the legend the Galaxy wants him to be. He’s failed. He’s not perfect. But in the end, he’s able to create an even greater legend that brings the Galaxy hope in the face of almost certain doom. That’s hard. That means seeing one of our childhood heroes as less than perfect. I absolutely understand the frustration there.

We don’t get all the answers we want. The question Rey’s is arguably left unresolved. We don’t get answers about Snoke (although, to be fair, the FILM never asks those questions, only the FANS do). Our heroes barely do a damn thing right in two and a half hours. The ending promise that Leia’s character can not fulfill will be left unresolved because of real-life events.
And, as I said above, the big one above about Luke.

I get it. Fans are frustrated. They have every right to be. But from my perspective, The Last Jedi does more to further the saga by not being exactly what fans want it to be. Because of the challenges it presents. Because of the fact that our heroes, especially Luke, are flawed. If it showed a perfect Jedi Luke who could fix everything with the wave of his lightsaber, well, where’s the challenge in that?

Failure, after all, is the best teacher.

I don’t think I’m going to change anyone’s opinion on the movie. Fans are set in their ways and that’s fine. I just need to say my piece.

 

[Tosk]

Same here. It is becoming quite baffling.

I personally found the film quite disappointing, but I totally get why people would enjoy it. Maybe the gulf is only baffling to people on one side of the fence.

 

[Campe]

I personally found the film quite disappointing, but I totally get why people would enjoy it. Maybe the gulf is only baffling to people on one side of the fence.

For me, it’s not THAT people dislike it, it’s how there seems to be little in between it. It seems you love it or hate it in fandom. Then again, the internet does tend to amplify extremes.

While some I know don’t necessarily like the movie, I don’t think I’ve spoken to anyone in person who actually downright hates it.

 

[Tosk]

I don't hate it, (and definitely don't love it) I did love some stuff about it and hated some stuff, which has left me in that "I'm not sure I care that much" space. So it's more like Justice League (meh) than BvS (Aaargh, noooo!)

 

[Campe]

I don't hate it, (and definitely don't love it) I did love some stuff about it and hated some stuff, which has left me in that "I'm not sure I care that much" space. So it's more like Justice League (meh) than BvS (Aaargh, noooo!)

Like I said, the internet tends to amplify extremes. We're probably closer on our feelings on TLJ. It is not a perfect movie but it is well crafted and I appreciated the messages it conveyed. I totally get why people didn't.

And I still need to see Justice League.

 

[fireproof78]

I personally found the film quite disappointing, but I totally get why people would enjoy it. Maybe the gulf is only baffling to people on one side of the fence.

You would think that, but no

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

TIEs are famously cheap and designed to be lighter.

Yes. I seem to recall reading that the standard model is intentionally left unshielded. The Empire values aggressiveness and places no value on individual lives.

 

[DigificWriter]

The "backlash" against The Last Jedi has, from the moment the film was released, struck me as being a case of the "vocal minority" once again dictating perception, just as happened with the Prequel Trilogy.

 

[Reverend]

Lest we forget, it was not only Poe who was not informed. There were other people who were not informed. People who worked close to those in charge, like Carrie Fisher's daughter's character. This created a conflict between those who knew and those who did not knew.

There was like 6 or 7 people who choose Poe's side on a ship of about 400. There was no tension between those in the know and those in the dark. They were part of a resistance cell and most of them were either ex-Republic military and/or Alliance veterans, so they should all be well used to operating on a need to know basis.

What this was really about was personalities and ego, with Poe being entirely at fault. Just about everyone there was there because of Leia and with her out of commission it allowed Poe to leverage a small handful of people who were either more directly loyal to him or were there *only* for Leia and nobody else to go along with his mutiny.

 

[Tuskin38]

TLJ was the most profitable move of 2017.

http://deadline.com/2018/03/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office-movie-profits-1202351603/

 

[Set Harth]

TIEs are famously cheap and designed to be lighter.

TIE Bombers don't seem to have a problem moving around at a much greater speed than the silly glacial pace of the Resistance bombers.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

If we use profitability as a measure for the quality of a film, that is is reaching. Transformers: Age of Extinction was the most profitable film of 2014 and Secret Life of Pets was the most profitable film of 2016. How many people would call those two films quality filmmaking at its best?

I do not like this film. I do not like this trilogy. This is not coming from someone who has nostalgia for the old films. I barely remember the old films. It has been years since I saw the first three and far longer than that for the prequel trilogy. I feel the need to emphasize this for people will say certain things which have become familiar mantras.

This is all I have to say about this now.

 

[Tuskin38]

TIE Bombers don't seem to have a problem moving around at a much greater speed than the silly glacial pace of the Resistance bombers.

They were moving fast, it’s just the scale made them look slow. the dreadnought is nearly 8KM long.

 

[General_Phoenix]

TIE Bombers don't seem to have a problem moving around at a much greater speed than the silly glacial pace of the Resistance bombers.

TIE Bombers are slow, maybe not as slow as the SF-17, but anyone that has played the X-Wing series, or TIE Fighter can attest they aren't incredibly fast, or maneuverable, although clever work of the speed throttle and you could do some fairly remarkable stuff with a TIE Bomber, especially against faster fighters like A-Wings. Speed doesn't always mean best.

The B-Wing was a bomber, and very maneuverable too, and was specifically designed to go up against capital ships. The SF-17 looks like a chopped up Nebulon B Frigate.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The SF-17 looks like a chopped up Nebulon B Frigate.

I agree, that's what it looks like.

If we are going to use the X-Wing series video games as a benchmark, capital ships were very slow. If that's basically what the B/SF-17 actually is, then being slow and lumbering would be fully consistent.

 

[fireproof78]

TIE Bombers don't seem to have a problem moving around at a much greater speed than the silly glacial pace of the Resistance bombers.

We have one scene of the bombers. Are we to judge all Star Wars bombers by that scene?

 

[General_Phoenix]

I agree, that's what it looks like.

If we are going to use the X-Wing series video games as a benchmark, capital ships were very slow. If that's basically what the B/SF-17 actually is, then being slow and lumbering would be fully consistent.

I like the SF-17, even if it confuses me a bit. A few crew members onboard (not counting gunners) you would think a pilot and co-pilot would be enough, the bomb bay could be automated so the pilot/co-pilot could deploy the payload. Plus the bombardier seems like a very hazardous job even in the best of situations, why not have a droid do that obviously dangerous work?

Still wondering what happened to the B-Wings, a maneuverable bomber with a thin profile that is hard to hit, seems like a logical choice to keep that design around and keep updating it post-ROTJ.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I like the SF-17, even if it confuses me a bit. A few crew members onboard (not counting gunners) you would think a pilot and co-pilot would be enough, the bomb bay could be automated so the pilot/co-pilot could deploy the payload. Plus the bombardier seems like a very hazardous job even in the best of situations, why not have a droid do that obviously dangerous work?

Still wondering what happened to the B-Wings, a maneuverable bomber with a thin profile that is hard to hit, seems like a logical choice to keep that design around and keep updating it post-ROTJ.

I got the impression that many, if not most or even all, of the old Rebel Alliance supply pipelines (which were always limited to begin with) have dried up, and the Resistance has even fewer resources at their disposal.

 

[Reverend]

Well aside from the B-wings (which IIRC existed in *very* limited numbers) everything the Alliance was flying were outdated and heavily retrofitted relics from the Clone Wars. By contrast everything the Resistance has are first-gen New Republic, which are mostly full production models of those aforementioned relics after all of those makeshift field modifications are seamlessly integrated into the designs.

One imagines the reason the mk-2 B-wings aren't in their fleet is probably because they're much newer than the RZ-2's & T-70's, thus probably still in service and not easy to get a hold of.
Even leaving that aside, while B-wings pack one hell of a punch for such a small craft, they're really not bombers but heavy assault fights. Meant for getting in fast, breaking blockades, crippling cruisers (a destroyer if they're *very* lucky) and getting out before they can be overwhelmed by interceptors. Delivering heavy ordinance isn't really their thing.

The MG-100's on the other hand are all about ordinance delivery. They're bunker busters, carpet bombers used to dig Imperial holdouts out of fortified positions. After the war a lot of them were re-purposed by mining companies to crack open asteroids, which should give you some idea as to their raw destructive potential. Hell, it only took *one* of them to take out a dreadnought, something I don't think even a whole squadron of B-wings could pull off.