Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
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He must have landed in a wormhole.That asteroid in ESB had gravity (and atmospheric pressure) inside (not really) a cave, that was 90 degree off axis from any natural gravity well. The moral of the story: Star Wars is a space fantasy fairytale, so just go with it!
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There's a difference between firing bombs and dropping bombs. We don't see how the system works in ESB, but TLJ makes it seem as though it's all gravity and inertia, which is why it feels like a weird choice. I also wonder why the bombers are so damn slow....and why they don't come in from all directions, seeing as only one of them is needed to deliver a big enough payload to take out the target.
No...that's not itThat asteroid in ESB had gravity (and atmospheric pressure) inside (not really) a cave, that was 90 degree off axis from any natural gravity well. The moral of the story: Star Wars is a space fantasy fairytale, so just go with it!
They're slow because they're big hulking bombers deliberately evoking WWII flying fortresses. It's called visual storytelling, which has always been a key trait in Star Wars movies.
Also, the "slowness" is at least partly an illusion created by the camera tracking with them. Did you think these guys were crawling along at a walking pace too?
I love how any complaint (no matter how minor) about TLJ becomes, "Hey man, they already did something like that before and you never said shit!"
To join in and compare it to another SW, the AT-AT attack in ESB has them coming at the Rebels slow as heck (relatively speaking, as you pointed out) with the walkers coming in inexorably and shrugging off incoming fire due to their heavy armor. So you get a slow progression, and the enemy has to try hard to keep them back. The Rebels finally find a way to bring one or two of them down before the Empire overruns the base.
TLJ, (and I admit fully to only seeing it once so far, so apologies if I'm hazy) my primary recollection of the opening was the bombers coming in relatively slow as can be, being picked off one by one by laser blasts, until a single one finally drops a load of bombs, taking out the enemy in one go.
Both scenes have a "can they do it?" sense of pace built into them, but the Empire in ESB comes in knowing they'll get there, whereas the Rebels in TLJ just keep plugging away losing ship after ship from the same direction with seemingly no real plan of attack except to attack. I guess they figured they had no choice, but pick a new direction guys, jeez.
I don't ask for realism in these films, (not really) but a scene makes me feel the way I feel, I can't help it. And the scene didn't even really bother me that much anyway, to tell the truth.
To join in and compare it to another SW, the AT-AT attack in ESB has them coming at the Rebels slow as heck (relatively speaking, as you pointed out) with the walkers coming in inexorably and shrugging off incoming fire due to their heavy armor. So you get a slow progression, and the enemy has to try hard to keep them back. The Rebels finally find a way to bring one or two of them down before the Empire overruns the base.
TLJ, (and I admit fully to only seeing it once so far, so apologies if I'm hazy) my primary recollection of the opening was the bombers coming in relatively slow as can be, being picked off one by one by laser blasts, until a single one finally drops a load of bombs, taking out the enemy in one go.
Both scenes have a "can they do it?" sense of pace built into them, but the Empire in ESB comes in knowing they'll get there, whereas the Rebels in TLJ just keep plugging away losing ship after ship from the same direction with seemingly no real plan of attack except to attack. I guess they figured they had no choice, but pick a new direction guys, jeez.
I don't ask for realism in these films, (not really) but a scene makes me feel the way I feel, I can't help it. And the scene didn't even really bother me that much anyway, to tell the truth.
Sure. But we still see equally large vessels going faster at other times. The entire movie has odd (to me) "movement related" issues.
Don't all movies do that?
Again, the perception of speed is only relative to the camera. They only look like they're hardly moving because the camera is moving in pace, and because they're holding both their course and formation the whole time...because they're on a bombing run.
To varying degrees, but SW has always hewed close to the highly romanticised end of the spectrum. Which generally means the visuals supersede any sense of realism. That's been in the DNA of the franchise from the very beginning.Don't all movies do that?
I'm not talking about one shot. I'm talking about the amount of time they take to do their run in comparison to all else that is going on.
Dropping some bombs requires them to maintain speed and bearing?
I really shouldn't need to explain why a heavy bomber isn't as light on it's feet as a TIE fighter or an X-Wing, nor why it takes a while to traverse a ship that's over 7.5K long. At least at a relative velocity that doesn't cause the payload to overshoot the target.
No, maintaining formation requires them to maintain speed and course, which they need to do if they are to even have a hope of getting to the target at all. Bombers are big and cumbersome and are in no way able to out manoeuvre fighters, so no point in even trying. Indeed, doing so would split the group up, making them more vulnerable to the enemy fighters. By staying together they can overlap their turrets fields of fire and give each other the best defensive possible, while simultaneously making it easier on their escorts by not spreading out.
Of course they'd still be sitting ducks to any defensive emplacements, which is exactly why Poe cleared them all out first.
Yes, actually.I love how any complaint (no matter how minor) about TLJ becomes, "Hey man, they already did something like that before and you never said shit!"
I thought it was explained somewhere (not in the movie) that the bombs weren't being dropped, but that they were, in fact jettisoned. Something about the racks magnetically forcing them out, which would give them velocity to continue to travel downward and hit their target.
I had no problem with the bombers being big lumbering hulks... I just would figure they would have better shielding. The TIEs were taking them out with little trouble.
I had no problem with the bombers being big lumbering hulks... I just would figure they would have better shielding. The TIEs were taking them out with little trouble.
Of course, an Imperial Dreadnought is big enough to have its own gravity well (Hell, it's probably bigger than Spaceball One!)
IIRC it's explained in Star Wars The Last Jedi The Visual Dictionary.
I think it was the sheer weight of numbers arrayed against them. Even tough shields have their limits after-all.
The thing is that while it was carried out in the best way possible from a tactical standpoint, from a strategic standpoint it was a terrible plan. The only reason it (barely!) worked is because Hux is a grandstanding idiot who neglected to order all ships to launch fighters as soon as they jumped in. Had they done so, the bombers wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the dreadnought.
As well as "Incredible Cross-Sections" and the Resistance Guide that tells more of Paige's story.
In space it shouldn't matter. Why were TIE bombers not similarly encumbered?
Most of the bombers are destroyed in a goofy "chain reaction" scenario and as such it doesn't come off like they have any shields at all. The problem is that the people in charge seem to have no idea how any of this stuff is supposed to work and the famous Story Group is utterly useless.
I re-watched the film recently on TV. I felt the film drag for most of its run. I had to convince myself to stay with it to the end. I felt more acutely the abrupt editing this time. Of the new characters, I hate Admiral Holdo. She did not tell her plans for she did not want to be the hero and wanted to save the light. WTF!!! Keeping your people informed is not acting as a hero, it is doing your damn job. Fuck.
My mother did not like it. She saw it as a pastiche of past moments from the original trilogy. She was looking for originality and coming up empty. She did not like the new Luke. This was not the Luke she remembered from the original trilogy. Of the new characters, she was the most vocal about Rose. During the Canto Bight sequence, she was annoyed by how much Rose screamed. When they were trapped at the cliff, my mother said that if Rose screamed loud enough, she might use her screaming power to get them out of their predictament.
One last point - the Flying Fortresses of WWII were tough birds. It took a lot to bring them down. I have seen pictures of them with hugh chucks of the fuselage missing and wings messed up after they returned home. These bombers in the film were more like the Japanese bombers, the Bettys, which had no armor plating and were known as the "One-Shot Lighter" for when their unprotected fuel tanks were hit, the plane became a flaming piece of metal.
My mother did not like it. She saw it as a pastiche of past moments from the original trilogy. She was looking for originality and coming up empty. She did not like the new Luke. This was not the Luke she remembered from the original trilogy. Of the new characters, she was the most vocal about Rose. During the Canto Bight sequence, she was annoyed by how much Rose screamed. When they were trapped at the cliff, my mother said that if Rose screamed loud enough, she might use her screaming power to get them out of their predictament.
One last point - the Flying Fortresses of WWII were tough birds. It took a lot to bring them down. I have seen pictures of them with hugh chucks of the fuselage missing and wings messed up after they returned home. These bombers in the film were more like the Japanese bombers, the Bettys, which had no armor plating and were known as the "One-Shot Lighter" for when their unprotected fuel tanks were hit, the plane became a flaming piece of metal.
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See, while I’m fine (but may not agree) with most complaints on the film, this one irks me quite a bit. Why does Holdo need to tell Poe her plans? He’s already proven himself reckless and incapable of following orders. What possible reason would Holdo have to trust him? There’s a chain of command and orders such as showing the survival of her people are taken very seriously and are on a need to know basis. If I were in Holdo’s shoes, I wouldn’t be certain Poe needed to know. Except he’s one of the heroes and we’re so used to the idea of heroes knowing all because they’re always presented as superheroes who can do no wrong.
That’s a big part of The Last Jedi and I think a reason that many fans didn’t like it — it shows our heroes with failings. Everyone gets so bent out of shape about Rey “being a Mary Sue” and the moment any other character fails, whether it be Poe or even Luke, it’s blasphemy!
Not meaning to pick on you in particular but I too watched (most of) it again tonight. And I found myself even more engaged. You’re absolutely entitled to your opinion. I’m still just so surprised at the chasm between those who enjoyed and those who didn’t.
Lest we forget, it was not only Poe who was not informed. There were other people who were not informed. People who worked close to those in charge, like Carrie Fisher's daughter's character. This created a conflict between those who knew and those who did not knew.
I am attempting to think of a time in the real world when a commander did not inform their subordinates about a plan and the plan succeeding. I can not think of one.
I will not go so far as to call Rey a Mary Sue; however, her character is not engaging enough for me to investigate further what she could be.
This is a deeply divisive film with 91% of critics praising it and 48% of non-critics liking it.
I am attempting to think of a time in the real world when a commander did not inform their subordinates about a plan and the plan succeeding. I can not think of one.
I will not go so far as to call Rey a Mary Sue; however, her character is not engaging enough for me to investigate further what she could be.
This is a deeply divisive film with 91% of critics praising it and 48% of non-critics liking it.
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