Is Star Trek V canon?

[Maurice]

TheGodThing used to email me stuff periodically after he left the board, then the last time I wrote him I got a "don't ever contact me again message", which still perplexes me given we were always on good terms in the past.

I never personally encountered his "dark side", and only heard about it from others. Perhaps he decided I fell into some category he couldn't stomach.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

HausmeisterOHBSystemAG is TheGodThing under a new screenname. That's why he's linking to his old posts and referring to himself in the first person. I presume that's why his new account is now deleted.

Ah, of course. And we hate TheGodThing!(?) ...right? I'll go get the pitchforks.

 

[MAGolding]

Thought.

Turning this back around to Star Trek V. What if we're being too literal? "Never been this close" doesn't mean the Enterprise being in proximity of a Klingon ship. It doesn't even mean mingling with the enemy as both have happened in TFF.

What if "Never been this close" means never been this close to actual peace?

Which is not the same as just a ceasefire, or the Organian Peace Treaty that was forced on them, or the peace treaty the Federation and Klingons were trying to negotiate behind the scenes in TSFS but completely fell apart.

Except that there has been an alteration between peace (with rivalry and a cold war atmosphere) and war (hot war with ships blasting each other and blasting planets) for the entire lifespans of the protagonists and at the very moment the words are spoken there is a state of peace between the Federation and the Klingons.

Stardate 9521.6, Captain's log, U.S.S. Excelsior. Hikaru Sulu commanding. After three years I've concluded my first assignment as master of this vessel, cataloguing gaseous planetary anomalies in the Beta Quadrant. We're heading home under full impulse power. I am pleased to report that ship and crew have functioned well.

Would Starfleet's finest ship have spent the last 3 years on a scientific expedition if there had been a shooting war with the Klingons?

SULU: Praxis is their key energy production facility. ...Send to Klingon High Command. 'This is Excelsior, a Federation starship. We have monitored a large explosion in your sector. Do you require assistance?

Would Sulu have offered to assist the Klingons if there was a shooting war with them.

KERLA (on viewscreen): This is Brigadier Kerla, speaking for the High Command. There has been an incident on Praxis. However everything is under control. We have no need for assistance. Obey treaty stipulations and remain outside the Neutral Zone. This transmission ends now.

Brigadier Kerla, speaking for the High Command, says that there is a treaty in force.

Gorkon is not offering peace to the Federation. They already have peace. Gorkon is offering a major change in the basic relationship between the Federation and the Klingons, a change that will greatly reduce the probability of future hostilities.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think we're trying to say the same thing.

I think there might've been a ceasefire or, at most a Cold War. Are they shooting at each other and in all-out warfare ala Discovery? Probably not, but that isn't the same as what I think of as peace peace. Technically the United States isn't at war with a lot of countries that they're not exactly friends with (to put it lightly), though they might try to be on occasion. Same thing here.

The Klingon Ambassador does say in ST IV, "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!" but that might've just as easily have been hot air and rhetoric.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The Klingon Ambassador does say in ST IV, "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!" but that might've just as easily have been hot air and rhetoric.

Since hot air and rhetoric is pretty much all the Klingon Ambassador ever says, I'd say so.

I love his cameo in STVI, where he's arguing vehemently for peace. It really shows that he'll passionately argue for whatever the current position of his government happens to be.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Consistency / continuity and canon are two totally different concepts.

Some people need this tattooed backwards on their foreheads so they'll see it every morning when they look in the mirror.

 

[DonIago]

Since hot air and rhetoric is pretty much all the Klingon Ambassador ever says, I'd say so.

I love his cameo in STVI, where he's arguing vehemently for peace. It really shows that he'll passionately argue for whatever the current position of his government happens to be.

Well, that's the sign of a good ambassador.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

I never got the sense that DS9 was pro-war, myself...

Agreed. In fact, I felt DS9 was adamantly anti-war.

 

[Greg Cox]

I think we're trying to say the same thing.

I think there might've been a ceasefire or, at most a Cold War. Are they shooting at each other and in all-out warfare ala Discovery? Probably not, but that isn't the same as what I think of as peace peace. Technically the United States isn't at war with a lot of countries that they're not exactly friends with (to put it lightly), though they might try to be on occasion. Same thing here.

The Klingon Ambassador does say in ST IV, "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!" but that might've just as easily have been hot air and rhetoric.

Well, if we accept that TUC was basically riffing on the apparent end of the Cold War between the USA and the USSR, with "Gorkon" subbing for Gorbachev, then that's presumably also the case with the Klingons and Federation. The USA and the USSR were not shooting at each other back in the day, but they had been adversaries for decades at that point. Gorkon was offering a detente in hopes of ending the frequently hardfought Cold War that had been going on since at least TOS . ...

 

[fireproof78]

Since hot air and rhetoric is pretty much all the Klingon Ambassador ever says, I'd say so.

I love his cameo in STVI, where he's arguing vehemently for peace. It really shows that he'll passionately argue for whatever the current position of his government happens to be.

He also applauds Kirk as well, which I always found amusing for some reason.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I love his cameo in STVI, where he's arguing vehemently for peace. It really shows that he'll passionately argue for whatever the current position of his government happens to be.

As an ambassador for that government, that's his JOB.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Since some people in this thread liked my previous BBS post about figuring out which TOS episodes are in continuity with the movies, you might be interested in the expanded version I posted at the AtomicJunkShop yesterday. Click on the link if you're interested. It's got pictures and everything!

 

[DonIago]

I think you were a little too liberal with some of your criteria, such as any mention of Starfleet Academy, but hey, it's your list.

Now do DS9!!!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Now do DS9!!!

Okay. DS9 isn't mentioned in any of the movies, so none of it is in continuity.

That was fun.

 

[DonIago]

Well...Worf the lawyer in TUC is the ancestor of Worf in DS9, soooo....

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I have one rule, if it's not a Quinn Martin production then it's not Canon.

 

[Commander Kielbasa]

Why wouldn't it be?
One nice night in STV with Klingons isn't going to erase decades of hatred for them, numerous bad experiences, or the death of his son by their hands. He can be cordial, if distant, for an evening and still not trust or like them.

 

[Jetboogieman]

There are elements of the movie which make it being canon problematic.

But chief among them is the entire of the “centre of the galaxy” thing.

But I am still one of those who finds FF an endearing movie none the less.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Due to rights issues between CBS and Paramount, none of the movies can be referenced in the current TV series. While I doubt they'll deliberately contradict them, I guess that means, for all intents and purposes, they're not canon. Click!

 

[RColtrane]

To OP: Why not?