kriosian maybe? Didn't they have same make up as trills and were a subject works within the empire.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Oh PLEASE. Not all mary sues are written the same and yes, Cornwell in the last episode literally begged her for help for fuck sake.
No it literally wasn't, it was because Lorca put her there because of magical fate. She then just went on to be absolutely perfect and solve pretty much every major issue.
Are you kidding me? Sarek, SAREK was basically fawning over her past the forced tension of one episode. The finale basically had Sarek basically give her a blow job on screen.
No, it's because she is a Mary Sue, I've watched TV before, I've read literature, most MC's don't have the literal universe and absolutely everything revolve around how important and brilliant they are. Because the writers gave extremely hamfisted halfassed reasons why everyone loves Burnham to the point of absurdity, doesn't make her not a Mary Sue. Reality itself basically bends around her.
Did you watch the Mirror Universe Arc where basically it turned into "Fight over who gets to keep Burnham"? Why didn't Kol just shoot her in the head then and there? Oh right Burnhams ridiculous plot armour.
Oh boy, a collective 15 minutes of screen time spent on other characters other than Burnham, wow, totally proves she's not a mary sue.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME.
Are you actually serious? How in fuck is Worf anything like Michael being the secret, magical, super best, never spoken about before sister of probably one of the most famous characters of all time? Seriously how do you not cringe at the absolutely ABSURD Mary Sue backstory of Burnham, it's absolutely fanfiction.net tier shit. It's literally Lieutenant Mary Sue tier shit as in, the original Lt.Mary Sue story actually pulls a similar plot point out it's ass.
What next. Lt Mary Sue is not a Mary Sue?
"Fall from grace"
Read: Nobody listened to her brilliance because nobody realised she had a secret psychic hotline to Sarek and knew of secret Vulcan state intelligence secrets and because nobody listened to the absolutely brilliant and perfect Michael Burnham a war started, but she gets blamed even though she did nothing wrong, but over the course of the plot, everyone realises they were wrong about her all along and she is actually the best and most wonderful and smartest person ever.
"work twice as hard to get back to where she'd been in the first place."
Didn't have to do anything and was pretty much literally floated into essentially being acting first officer on Discovery in all ways that matter.
Burnham is a classic 2nd Generation Mary Sue (Mary Sues that were written after the original Mary Sue story that tried to deflect some of the criticism of Mary Sues). She's a fucking horribly written and a Mary Sue by pretty much every definition. Again, so was Wesley Crusher, but at least the writers were able to try mitigate some of the damage of Wesley and shipped him off and basically wrote him as a smug little prick once Roddenberry wasn't around. So far, we haven't had the luxury of Burnham, Mary Sue straight through. There is a difference between being a main character and the center of the Universe. Burnham is the latter. I mean, did you watch this episode? The last 10 minutes were pretty much "Jerk off Burnham the greatest most beautiful person ever, the hero of the Federation" and she got a standing ovation from all of Starfleet and the Federation Council.
Burnham is a Mary Sue character. The fact you don't even think her insanely cringeworthy backstory has any mary-sueness shows that you couldn't see a Mary Sue if it was punching you in the face.
Discovery has been far from perfect, but I enjoyed the series and was intrigued with it's direction.
But, the last two episodes - the finale in particular - have taken the series into a very underwhelming and idiotic nosedive. Not to mention how bored I was waiting for the episode to kick into high gear and ... Enterprise... credits.
Jesus, what the hell did I just watch? Extremely disappointed with season 1's resolution.
But, the last two episodes - the finale in particular - have taken the series into a very underwhelming and idiotic nosedive. Not to mention how bored I was waiting for the episode to kick into high gear and ... Enterprise... credits.
Jesus, what the hell did I just watch? Extremely disappointed with season 1's resolution.
I like the actress who portrays Michael Burnham. She comes off as affable and brightens up a room with her personality.
On the other hand, I think she has a limited acting range. None of her personality comes through. I know she is acting a role. Yet, seeing a character who is so dour and self-righteous, gets old quickly. I am seeing the same facial reactions and head movements to events over and over again. For the first time, watching this latest episode, I felt annoyance. There are performers like Mary Wiseman, who plays Tilly, who can elevate the scene because they have a wider range of acting ability.
Like I said before, I watch this show for Tilly, I will watch this show, as well, for Saru.
On the other hand, I think she has a limited acting range. None of her personality comes through. I know she is acting a role. Yet, seeing a character who is so dour and self-righteous, gets old quickly. I am seeing the same facial reactions and head movements to events over and over again. For the first time, watching this latest episode, I felt annoyance. There are performers like Mary Wiseman, who plays Tilly, who can elevate the scene because they have a wider range of acting ability.
Like I said before, I watch this show for Tilly, I will watch this show, as well, for Saru.
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Amaris
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By the point, I was just rolling with tears.
That one made me giggle, too. Michael's "don't do that" was so perfect. Honestly, Mary Wiseman and Sonequa MG play off of each other very well.
Amongst all the people who pointed out Clint Howard's appearance, has anyone noted that he's the first actor to appear in the The Original Series era, the Next Generation era, and the Discovery era?
Yeah I definitely giggled. I think this quality of interaction, if they can perfect it among other members of the ensemble, will, IMO, go a long way toward helping S2. That, plus better writing, will probably defuse the whole "Burnham issue".
Clint Howard appeared in the ENT era as the Ferengi Muk.
She is no more so than Picard was. If anything, she reminds me of the traditional Star Trek 'captain' character, who is there to make speeches and make righteous decisions and talk about Starfleet values. Kirk did this, too. Like Kirk, she has friendships with other character types (in this case Tilly and Lorca) which act as the voices on her shoulders.
The part where they lose me on Burnham is the Tyler relationship, I'm glad they brought that to an end.
Eighteen years from Babel, so probably since he joined Starfleet and gave the VSA the two fingered salute.
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Yeah whilst (obviously) if an actor is plain bad then there's no hope but I don't think she is - and what I took from your post (correct me if I'm wrong) is that she's not necessarily significantly worse than two previous actors held in high esteem. It's the writing and the inter-relationships that must be done well. IMHO I think with better writing and some banter (like that with Tilly discussed a few posts above) I think SMG could yet surprise us in S2.
And u watched 15 episodes to find that out... what a waste of time for you.
Right? I’m not suggesting that people have to like everything about Discovery to watch it. I think having friendly disagreements about things we love is cool. But there are some who genuinely HATE this show. I do not now nor have I ever understood hate watching. People need to find something productive to do with their time.
A quickie, because for a rare once I don't have time to go through the previous 30 pages:
How come only the Emperor knew the volcanoes of of Qo'noS were active?
I mean, of course Starfleet would have every right to know, from those Vulcan files a century out of date, or from more recent intel they won't share with Saru or Burnham. Nothing wrong with that. And of course the Emperor would know, being the rightful owner of said ruins herself. But how come Voq didn't know, or at least didn't tell the heroes?
Is it just that the heroes didn't ask him the right questions, and Tyler wasn't able to volunteer stuff like that without direct tickling of the relevant memories? But Tyler was briefed on the plan and its absolute dependence on the volcanoes being dead. Didn't that trigger any comment from Voq?
Timo Saloniemi
How come only the Emperor knew the volcanoes of of Qo'noS were active?
I mean, of course Starfleet would have every right to know, from those Vulcan files a century out of date, or from more recent intel they won't share with Saru or Burnham. Nothing wrong with that. And of course the Emperor would know, being the rightful owner of said ruins herself. But how come Voq didn't know, or at least didn't tell the heroes?
Is it just that the heroes didn't ask him the right questions, and Tyler wasn't able to volunteer stuff like that without direct tickling of the relevant memories? But Tyler was briefed on the plan and its absolute dependence on the volcanoes being dead. Didn't that trigger any comment from Voq?
Timo Saloniemi
Calm it down please, Donker. You can make your points without this sort of antagonistic reply. If you disagree, just give your counterpoints without the needless additions.
Alright, I'm not going to review this one in a traditional sense.
Discovery has become so laughably bad, it's definitely entertaining... so I was entertained.
I laughed through Burnham's corny speech, thank you Sonequa for that.
I definitely laughed at the resolution to the Klingon War, which has been such a meaningless storyline, devoid of emotion. It was almost on par with Starship Troopers. So much blood and death, yet ultimately no emotional impact on the audience. Very much the antithesis to how Ds9 handled their war.
I don't even know how to react to making Yeoh Captain and Starfleet's genocide plan. It's all so silly and cartoony.
Sidenote, something always struck me as odd about James Frain's portrayal of Sarek, and I think I figured out what it is. He constantly tends to look like he's smiling.... which is a very strange approach to this character.
Discovery has become so laughably bad, it's definitely entertaining... so I was entertained.
I laughed through Burnham's corny speech, thank you Sonequa for that.
I definitely laughed at the resolution to the Klingon War, which has been such a meaningless storyline, devoid of emotion. It was almost on par with Starship Troopers. So much blood and death, yet ultimately no emotional impact on the audience. Very much the antithesis to how Ds9 handled their war.
I don't even know how to react to making Yeoh Captain and Starfleet's genocide plan. It's all so silly and cartoony.
Sidenote, something always struck me as odd about James Frain's portrayal of Sarek, and I think I figured out what it is. He constantly tends to look like he's smiling.... which is a very strange approach to this character.
Tilly would've yelled "Long live the Empire!!" had Burnham not telling her to stop. Soon she's going to be a perfect carbon copy of Killy
Wow. That was an epic big scale disaster on the level of TATV. Not only the first episode of Discovery I didn't like, but total, absolute, and utter garbage. 1/10? Have not decided yet.
What was that? How did that make any sense?
How to solve the seemingly unwinnable Klingon war: Randomly give a hostile Klingon the detonator to a huge bomb. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? The equivalent of hitting your old TV in the hopes that will fix it, except the fate of billions depends on it.
The season's resolution made much less sense than Burnham's mutiny, which at least had some rationale given for it, and some that could be assigned to it after the fact. Here, we didn't get any hint as to why anyone thought this would work, let alone suggest it's a risky gambit where success is unlikely. To then turn into a callback to her mutiny made that all the more painful. Hey look – I thought I'd do something even more stupid this time, and got it approved and was lucky, hence I learned my lesson! In effect, the ending ruined the first two episodes as well.
Shame as it was going amazing up until then. Good episode you have there, it would be shame if shit writing happened right at the end of it.
Now, back to watching VOY: Endgame.
What was that? How did that make any sense?
How to solve the seemingly unwinnable Klingon war: Randomly give a hostile Klingon the detonator to a huge bomb. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? The equivalent of hitting your old TV in the hopes that will fix it, except the fate of billions depends on it.
The season's resolution made much less sense than Burnham's mutiny, which at least had some rationale given for it, and some that could be assigned to it after the fact. Here, we didn't get any hint as to why anyone thought this would work, let alone suggest it's a risky gambit where success is unlikely. To then turn into a callback to her mutiny made that all the more painful. Hey look – I thought I'd do something even more stupid this time, and got it approved and was lucky, hence I learned my lesson! In effect, the ending ruined the first two episodes as well.
Shame as it was going amazing up until then. Good episode you have there, it would be shame if shit writing happened right at the end of it.
Now, back to watching VOY: Endgame.
Season 2 of "The Orville" once it comes out, and rumors now saying it might come out earlier than Disco's Season 2.
And they've announced the main plot for Episode 1 of Season 2 already:
Because. I one else has surveyed and the emperor knew because she used them in same way to destroy qo’nos in mirror universe. She said qo’nos was a ball of cinder. She destroyed it in her universe the same way.
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