Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"

[Noname Given]

And the security staff, and the bridge/management crew, and by extension, the canteen staff. It’s inconcievable that something as big as the most powerful woman in that other universe being held on board is only known to three people. Just no.

Really? That's why the Admiral had her beamed directly to the security quarters. No one except those in the Transporter room knew she was aboard - and Saru stated: "You will NOT mention this to anyone...to do so will be considered Treason."

Also the Discovery only flew in to blow up the Palace ship. And the Bridge crew only saw Saru conversing with MU Lorca.

So, yeah, it's completely plausible the Discovery crew in general has zero idea of the actual identity of the 'original' Emperor of the Empire.

 

[Nyotarules]

Compassion. It's that simple. Humanity has grown since the 21st century, and they've gained a more emotional maturity that we still lack in large quantities.

'Compassion' and 'emotional maturity' does not equate to putting the security of the ship at risk. They are not working in an office, retail or the catering industry. They are soldiers fighting a war. It was a sentimental scene written by folks who would not know a war if it smacked them in the face.

 

[drmick]

Apologies- I haven't read the whole thread- but how does Cornwall's line about the Terran ISS Discovery and Saru's explanation about it switching places with Prime Discovery make sense?

And even if it does, surely the Lorca swap happened much, much earlier?

 

[Amaris]

'Compassion' and 'emotional maturity' does not equate to putting the security of the ship at risk. They are not working in an office, retail or the catering industry. They are soldiers fighting a war. It was a sentimental scene written by folks who would not know a war if it smacked them in the face.

They are Starfleet officers who happen to be at war. The courageous ones are the people who are willing to step up and risk their lives to hold fast to ideas that others eschew because there's so much to lose. Compassion is powerful, love is powerful, and if all you can do in war is mistrust and hate, then why fight an enemy when you already agree with their tactics?

 

[Nyotarules]

Compassion is powerful, love is powerful, and if all you can do in war is mistrust and hate, then why fight an enemy when you already agree with their tactics?

Good thing you weren't fighting the Nazis.

 

[urbandefault]

Apologies- I haven't read the whole thread- but how does Cornwall's line about the Terran ISS Discovery and Saru's explanation about it switching places with Prime Discovery make sense?

And even if it does, surely the Lorca swap happened much, much earlier?

Cornwell said she saw the Discovery's debris after it was destroyed. Saru explained that it was the ISS Disco. She assumed that Lorca Prime was transported to the MU, and must be dead.

 

[Amaris]

Good thing you weren't fighting the Nazis.

Your response makes no sense in context of the premise.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Do you htink MU Philippa has some plan in her head?

She ascended to the position of Emperor over probably the most conniving, power-hungry evil schemers in a universe full of them. And until that last hiccough, held the position for an untold number of years.

She should have a pretty well-rounded Xanatos gambit ready by now.

 

[Refuge]

And even if it does, surely the Lorca swap happened much, much earlier?

The Lorca swap I admit is still fuzzy to me. I even read through the transcript in case I missed something. Cornwell does assume her Lorca (oh that was sad) was lost/dead in the mirror universe. But really? Did he swap out then and how again? Did he die on the Buran? Is it grasping at straws that he might be alive?

 

[drmick]

Cornwell said she saw the Discovery's debris after it was destroyed. Saru explained that it was the ISS Disco. She assumed that Lorca Prime was transported to the MU, and must be dead.

Was that the first mention of the Mirror Discovery having to move the other direction?

 

[Nyotarules]

Your response makes no sense in context of the premise.

I doubt compassion and love defeats the enemy in real wars, especially their spies.

 

[CJCade]

To those saying the discovery crew are looking for military targets on qonos and nothing will happen to the planet, on the episode 15 preview something looks to be dropped into the core of the planet and the planet being enveloped in an energy surge. Looks genocidal. That’s what happens when a murderer of billions is allowed to Captain a federation starship. ( DIS plothole no 345).

Weapon that genetically alters and disables the Klingons, leading to the TOS Klingons.

 

[XCV330]

Though as I said at the top of the thread, Trek has always effed this up, showing colony planets and the like to be very under-inhabited. No one seems to understand how exponential population growth works. Like, a colony founded with only 10,000 inhabitants will have, presuming 3% growth, 187,000 residents a century later. Presuming it's cheap and easy to transport people in the Federation, and the birth rate on colonial planets is reasonably high, there should be many colonies with millions of inhabitants by the 23rd century.

I've actually liked the sparse colony idea. It could just mean people like staying in population centers and aren't interested risking it in colonies where there isnt much to do and attacks are more common.

The Falklands could probably support a greater population than the small group living there now, but you do not see millions of people of people trying to emigrate to there. Undersea colonies have been possible for decades but there are fewer people living and working on the seafloor (not counting naval subs) generally than in space.

In the United States in the midwest there are towns that are in danger of becoming abandoned that literally cannot give away land to suitable takers. Imagining how much more there would be to do in future Earth, I think leaving it for a colony would attract sum but certainly not MOST people, probably not many.

And IF You're going to live in a colony, just go to Yorktown, it's better.

 

[Butters]

Really? That's why the Admiral had her beamed directly top the security quarters. No one except those in the Transporter room knew she was aboard - and Saru stated: "You will NOT mention this to anyone...to do so will be considered Treason."

Also the Discovery only flew in to blow up the Palace ship. And the Bridge crew only saw Saru conversing with MU Lorca.

So, yeah, it's completely plausable the Discovery crew in general has zero idea of the actual identity pf the 'original' Emperor of the Empire.

But if you consider what treason actually is. And if you consider the rest of the crew as more than extras, and as part of a star fleet crew involved with the running of the ship and its survival, and their circumstances, their recent history, and Burnham’s reason for bringing the Empress aboard being purely personal, then that line can only be seen as the bollocks that it is.

It’s contrivance and I challenge the writers to not be so clumsy. They’re doing a good job when we’re hanging on the next word, not picking them apart.

The Empress being a secret only makes sense if, well, it doesn’t. So whatever happens in the next episode needs be taken with a dose of WTF, and it’s only the Star Trek in the title that gives it a free pass.

The very idea this tiny group, the captain, the teleport controller, and a non commissioned mutineer special, should hold this secret, is absurd. No first officer, no chief of security, no medic. No shift handover? And to what end? The pretence of the return of captain Georgeau?

I’m not gripped, as I should be, I’m slipping. And I really want to like this, i like trek, I want it on telly, new, but this type of shit is cancellation fodder.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

But if you consider what treason actually is. And if you consider the rest of the crew as more than extras, and as part of a star fleet crew involved with the running of the ship and its survival, and their circumstances, their recent history, and Burnham’s reason for bringing the Empress aboard being purely personal, then that line can only be seen as the bollocks that it is.

It’s contrivance and I challenge the writers to not be so clumsy. They’re doing a good job when we’re hanging on the next word, not picking them apart.

The Empress being a secret only makes sense if, well, it doesn’t. So whatever happens in the next episode needs be taken with a dose of WTF, and it’s only the Star Trek in the title that gives it a free pass.

The very idea this tiny group, the captain, the teleport controller, and a non commissioned mutineer special, should hold this secret, is absurd. No first officer, no chief of security, no medic. No shift handover? And to what end? The pretence of the return of captain Georgeau?

I’m not gripped, as I should be, I’m slipping. And I really want to like this, i like trek, I want it on telly, new, but this type of shit is cancellation fodder.

I dunno seems plausible to me.

If no one else knows, than no one else knows.

I mean crazier deceptions have happened even in our times.

 

[Tim Thomason]

"The presence of a Terran defector on this ship is to be regarded as classified. Its utterance will carry a penalty of treason." - Saru

"Uh, no, sir, I'm pretty sure treason is defined by the Federation Constitution. This would be merely unauthorized disclosure of classified information and disobeying a direct order. Also, you're not a judge and jury."

 

[urbandefault]

Tyler is starting to remind me of Ray Romano.

 

[Nyotarules]

I've actually liked the sparse colony idea. It could just mean people like staying in population centers and aren't interested risking it in colonies where there isnt much to do and attacks are more common.

The Falklands could probably support a greater population than the small group living there now, but you do not see millions of people of people trying to emigrate to there. Undersea colonies have been possible for decades but there are fewer people living and working on the seafloor (not counting naval subs) generally than in space.

In the United States in the midwest there are towns that are in danger of becoming abandoned that literally cannot give away land to suitable takers. Imagining how much more there would be to do in future Earth, I think leaving it for a colony would attract sum but certainly not MOST people, probably not many.

And IF You're going to live in a colony, just go to Yorktown, it's better.

In the Star Trek universe a colony needs to have a viable population via migration and/or high birth rates for genetic diversity or it will die. So unless these colonies have just been established, the small colony syndrome makes no sense and is utterly ridiculous in Star Trek.
I know the whole franchise requires a suspension of disbelief in a lot of things but the writers need to stop getting to the stage as if they are treating the viewers like idiots. We scrutinise everything lol

 

[GeekUSACarl]

"Uh, no, sir, I'm pretty sure treason is defined by the Federation Constitution. This would be merely unauthorized disclosure of classified information and disobeying a direct order. Also, you're not a judge and jury."

who's to say they have a jury system so directly similar to ours, and that their laws about treason work the same way?

perhaps in the federation, willfully disclosing classified information is treason.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Right now, I'd say that the ISS Disco is officially destroyed. But if they feel they need some mirror drama next season or later, they could have Captain Killy and crew survive somehow and lay low for awhile. Maybe they boarded the Klingon ship and shot up the ISS Disco as a ruse?