Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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In fairness to Discovery, I found it a lot easier to not think about the silly Trek stuff when it was wrapped up in less than 50 minutes. The new serialized format offers a lot of opportunities, but, IMO, they really need to step up their game to make it work.
I'm curious if binge watching would make it seem smoother, but I don't think I could make it through those endless Klingon scenes.
Do what I do: Pull out your phone and check FB.
Is it really? Compared to what? There are whole "nitpicker" books dedicated to plot holes in other Trek series; Discovery hasn't struck me as any worse in that regard.
Hell, I just re-watched the acclaimed TNG episode The Wounded, and the ending to that is more nonsensical than anything Discovery has done.
Well, I didn't count how many minutes he had, but it seemed to me that all other actors are now given much more screen time.
I would be curious to compare the amount of lines Sarek has had with the amount Lorca had before the big reveal. And Sarek isn't even part of the crew.
Surely Michael has had way more, don't you think? Yet she barely registers for me.
I'm rewatching before the finale. The contrast is even more dramatic between the episodes before and after Into the Forest I Go when you don't have a gap. It's like someone in the writer's room had too much sherry over the Xmas break, but I know the story was planned before they even started.
Playing Odo's daughter.
Axanar did ..... nothing.. yet. Just some random scenes and "interview footage".
I actually think they had less space given how much of the episode revolved around Georgiou/Cornwell/Sarek.
LOL.
Let’s be honest. People claim Star Trek in general is som sort of high brow television where the production is perfect in every way.
It’s not.
Discovery is no different. It’s an enjoyable series, at least to me. It’s had some good series and some are entertained. Those who are looking at the old days and suggesting that what they see now is any different may be looking at it through rose-tinted glasses.
It’s not.
Discovery is no different. It’s an enjoyable series, at least to me. It’s had some good series and some are entertained. Those who are looking at the old days and suggesting that what they see now is any different may be looking at it through rose-tinted glasses.
TLDR: finding the balance between our good natures and our darker sides.
As others have mentioned, handing over control of this critical mission to the evil emperor really is unrealistic and ridiculous. On the other hand, so much of Discovery has already been ridiculous and far removed from any semblance of probable reality, that at this point you may as well go with the ridiculous option, it almost makes sense.
In the first two episodes we were shown a utopian Starfleet that was the essence of political correctness, and likely a top-heavy bureaucratic organization that had no idea how to fight a war. At the battle of the binary stars they were clearly beyond their depth. This Starfleet has no grit, no sand, so no surprise they are being beaten.
Since then the only successes they've had that we've been shown were compliments of evil MU Lorca, who seemed to be single-handedly winning the war. Now we are going full circle with the reins being handed to evil MU Georgiou to do the dirty work that her good PU counterpart could never have ethically done. The Prime version of Georgiou may have been many good things, but she was not a warrior, and her correctness and unwavering devotion to utopian Starfleet principles doomed her to her fate. This is in spite of the fact she committed an atrocity by booby-trapping a dead body. IMO the writers were not trying to show what they showed - they thought they were showing tactical brilliance when in fact they showed her using the tactics of a terrorist.
What could make sense of this whole mess of a story would be if the mirror universe were a metaphor for the darker side of our nature, which we actually need to survive because that is where our survival instincts reside. Similar to TOS episode "The Enemy Within" Stardate: 1672.1 where Kirk is split into separate beings, one compassionate and one savage, who ultimately must reunite to survive. With this in mind, what the writers would be doing by installing MU Georgiou as captain, would be the equivalent of reaching into our darker natures and finding the will to survive.
If it were to go that route then the next step would be Starfleet committing an atrocity and threatening to commit more (like Hiroshima and Nagasaki), putting the Klingons in the position of facing the extinction of their species, and thus ending the war. I know a lot of people will be uncomfortable with this scenario, but I am fairly certain that the majority of men (maybe not woman) reading this will know deep down in their hearts that this is what we would do if we were in their position.
Of course we have the luxury of living in a time when not all human males have been neutered, so our perspective is obviously going to be different from utopian Starfleet. It might be difficult to find an un-neutered human male among the almost all female cast portraying humans on Discovery, but then maybe that's where MU Georgiou comes in - a metaphor for "un-neutered human male".
However, I'm probably giving the writers too much credit. It's more likely that Michael will save the day with a politically correct diplomatic compromise while spouting off some sanctimonious tripe about Federation values. Of course Michael will kill Georgiou along the way for betraying her and her uncompromisingly high ideals... and learn nothing from it... and still be stupid... because the writers keep writing her stupid - intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know which.
If that's the way it goes, the politically correct solution, then I'm out. There will be no second season for me.
I enjoyed 1-14, but not enough to win me over to the merits of this new Star Trek. They've got one shot left, they need to hit the target.
As others have mentioned, handing over control of this critical mission to the evil emperor really is unrealistic and ridiculous. On the other hand, so much of Discovery has already been ridiculous and far removed from any semblance of probable reality, that at this point you may as well go with the ridiculous option, it almost makes sense.
In the first two episodes we were shown a utopian Starfleet that was the essence of political correctness, and likely a top-heavy bureaucratic organization that had no idea how to fight a war. At the battle of the binary stars they were clearly beyond their depth. This Starfleet has no grit, no sand, so no surprise they are being beaten.
Since then the only successes they've had that we've been shown were compliments of evil MU Lorca, who seemed to be single-handedly winning the war. Now we are going full circle with the reins being handed to evil MU Georgiou to do the dirty work that her good PU counterpart could never have ethically done. The Prime version of Georgiou may have been many good things, but she was not a warrior, and her correctness and unwavering devotion to utopian Starfleet principles doomed her to her fate. This is in spite of the fact she committed an atrocity by booby-trapping a dead body. IMO the writers were not trying to show what they showed - they thought they were showing tactical brilliance when in fact they showed her using the tactics of a terrorist.
What could make sense of this whole mess of a story would be if the mirror universe were a metaphor for the darker side of our nature, which we actually need to survive because that is where our survival instincts reside. Similar to TOS episode "The Enemy Within" Stardate: 1672.1 where Kirk is split into separate beings, one compassionate and one savage, who ultimately must reunite to survive. With this in mind, what the writers would be doing by installing MU Georgiou as captain, would be the equivalent of reaching into our darker natures and finding the will to survive.
If it were to go that route then the next step would be Starfleet committing an atrocity and threatening to commit more (like Hiroshima and Nagasaki), putting the Klingons in the position of facing the extinction of their species, and thus ending the war. I know a lot of people will be uncomfortable with this scenario, but I am fairly certain that the majority of men (maybe not woman) reading this will know deep down in their hearts that this is what we would do if we were in their position.
Of course we have the luxury of living in a time when not all human males have been neutered, so our perspective is obviously going to be different from utopian Starfleet. It might be difficult to find an un-neutered human male among the almost all female cast portraying humans on Discovery, but then maybe that's where MU Georgiou comes in - a metaphor for "un-neutered human male".
However, I'm probably giving the writers too much credit. It's more likely that Michael will save the day with a politically correct diplomatic compromise while spouting off some sanctimonious tripe about Federation values. Of course Michael will kill Georgiou along the way for betraying her and her uncompromisingly high ideals... and learn nothing from it... and still be stupid... because the writers keep writing her stupid - intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know which.
If that's the way it goes, the politically correct solution, then I'm out. There will be no second season for me.
I enjoyed 1-14, but not enough to win me over to the merits of this new Star Trek. They've got one shot left, they need to hit the target.
That is until the Conference at Kihtomer where the Federation offered to help the Klingons with their fracking problems.Well, remember the line in STVI:TUC: "The Klingon Empire has 50 years of life left to it..." and "The Klingon Homeworld will be uninhabitable in that time..," <-- That's 80 years PRIOR to TNG where we (again) see Q'nos habitable; with ancient building/halls on the surface and Klingons living in various districts.
Excellent thought. It also becomes a bit of "redemption" for Sarek given the events depicted in "Lethe."
The evolved morales and sensibilities of Federation humans on full display. This is what everyone's been clamoring for.
I would guess that the nature of these types of "outer-space wars" are more about lost territory and capital than they are about lives.
You know what I miss? How DS9 handeled a gruesome, costly war.
When the characters read the casualties list, looking out for people they knew. Contemplating their life, making plans for what they would do after the war. There was a soberness to it. It felt real.
The DIS war on the other hand? Seems to operate on video game logic. Like a Starcraft game - where human beings are merely numbers to be rattled off to show how dire the situation is. And where a surprise attack on the other end of the map can turn the entire game in a swoop. But nobody has a personal stake in the war. No personal losses. Just "all your base are belong to us".
When the characters read the casualties list, looking out for people they knew. Contemplating their life, making plans for what they would do after the war. There was a soberness to it. It felt real.
The DIS war on the other hand? Seems to operate on video game logic. Like a Starcraft game - where human beings are merely numbers to be rattled off to show how dire the situation is. And where a surprise attack on the other end of the map can turn the entire game in a swoop. But nobody has a personal stake in the war. No personal losses. Just "all your base are belong to us".
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Solid, apart from the 100 AUs thing, but hard to see how they're going to wrap it all up in one more episode. Nice callback to Broken Bow as well. And I'm totally up for more Yeoh.
Which amounts to exactly the max ammount of time I'd be willing to spend on a stupid prequel-war without any stakes.
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