Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"

[Captain Killy]

First of all,

I do not belive the ISS Discovery was destroyed. It just doesn’t make sense in light of how Cornwell and Sarek boarded and took command control of the USS Discovery. It just doesn’t ring true to me.

 

[dahj]

We finally met the CMO. I suspected that was her last week.

She's obviously the CMO because in the scene you can hear the sound of Andorian tonsils jingling in her pocket

 

[seigezunt]

I loved this episode, especially the ending, but I will admit that the reintroduction of Tyler to the general crew population stretches the limits of credibility to the breaking point, as does enlisting the Empress to command the Raid on Qo'noS.

I don't care. The former is making for some interesting drama, and the latter is just badass. I'm in for the ride.

 

[eltel99uk]

First of all,

I do not belive the ISS Discovery was destroyed. It just doesn’t make sense in light of how Cornwell and Sarek boarded and took command control of the USS Discovery. It just doesn’t ring true to me.

Not sure I understand you. Surely if they know a ship is destroyed (and they say the wreckage was seen) and it suddenly re-appears you'd expect Starfleet to be highly suspicious.

 

[thribs]

With all these Enterprise references I wish they made T’Pol an Admiral in this. I know in the novels she retires to raise her children but I’m sure she could be reinstated. Plus the novels aren’t strictly canon to start off with.

 

[Captain Killy]

The cadet training suggested episodes are very telling...

Scorpion
Broken Bow
Matter of Honor

 

[XCV330]

With all these Enterprise references I wish they made T’Pol an Admiral in this. I know in the novels she retires to raise her children but I’m sure she could be reinstated. Plus the novels aren’t strictly canon to start off with.

Admiral T'Pol is responsible for the TMP uniforms

 

[eschaton]

With all these Enterprise references I wish they made T’Pol an Admiral in this. I know in the novels she retires to raise her children but I’m sure she could be reinstated. Plus the novels aren’t strictly canon to start off with.

Jolene Blalock has basically retired from acting. I don't even think she does the convention circuit. She married a rich guy, so she doesn't need to act to live any longer, she can just be a wife and mom.

 

[thribs]

Admiral T'Pol is responsible for the TMP uniforms

TMP? That’s another 20 years or so.

 

[thribs]

Jolene Blalock has basically retired from acting. I don't even think she does the convention circuit. She married a rich guy, so she doesn't need to act to live any longer, she can just be a wife and mom.

Doesn’t hurt to ask.

 

[Captain Killy]

Not sure I understand you. Surely if they know a ship is destroyed (and they say the wreckage was seen) and it suddenly re-appears you'd expect Starfleet to be highly suspicious.

Suspicious does not equal an armed boarding party, forced mind melding the crew and overriding Discovery’s command codes.

 

[thribs]

Suspicious does not equal an armed boarding party, forced mind melding the crew and overriding Discovery’s command codes.

Starfleet officers in this STD timeline are more aggressive than in the Prime. I could see them boarding like so if they thought the ship was destroyed. Obviously the part of the hull with the ISS was too damaged.

 

[thribs]

The cadet training suggested episodes are very telling...

Scorpion
Broken Bow
Matter of Honor

Finally, the Sulibon, Species 8472, Klingon mashup episode I’ve always wanted.

 

[the Sisko]

I was not a fan of the episode. It seemed too small, especially after last episode "save the multiverse" Here's what I would have changed to make it bigger.

1. Three Federation ships VFX approaching and tractoring disco while boarding. One ship having battle scars, one ship with weapons addons relative to stock BoBS footage.

2. Klingons wipe out an atmosphere of 11b, not 11k, leaving new member race 137 all but extinct. If the federation is a trillion citizens, the death tool needs to hit a number that breaks the audience's sense of scale. VFX of one of the starbases getting destroyed... ideally with a connie inside. Given that Georgio is likely going to attempt genocide, we need enough to have it at least feel like a debatable decision.

3. DISCO detects 10 cloaked Klingon vessels around Starbase 1, giving the first hint that the Klingon's are thinly stretched using their cloaking technology and demonstrating it's effectiveness.

4. Stamets debrief on his current status (is he 100% with no brain damage after Mirror stamets and Cheron were stopped).

5. Somebody should have suggested orbital or subterranean bombardment from Discovery. This massive fleet invasion plan seems silly when Discovery can jump underground, plant charges or torpedo warheads, or antimatter, or biological weapons and jump to the next planet and do the same. The advantage of being able to appear at will and fire and jump before getting shot upon cannot be overstated.

 

[eltel99uk]

...This massive fleet invasion plan seems silly when Discovery can jump underground, plant charges or torpedo warheads, or antimatter, or biological weapons and jump to the next planet and do the same. The advantage of being able to appear at will and fire and jump before getting shot upon cannot be overstated.

Which is why Georgiou will want to do it (once they seriously kick the Klingon's asses in terms of what was proposed in the episode) and why they'll bump her off as a genocidal maniac.

 

[cultcross]

Suspicious does not equal an armed boarding party, forced mind melding the crew and overriding Discovery’s command codes.

It does if you have seen that ship destroyed - the only logical conclusion they could have drawn was that it was a Klingon impostor of some description - hence the weapons and the mind meld to check they were who they said they were, and the Admiral's code to check the ship was the original. Nice to see Starfleet taking their security seriously for a change, though.

Incidentally, might be an idea to get Sarek to meld with TylerVoq, if they want to be sure he's not deceiving them.

 

[rhllot]

With all these Enterprise references I wish they made T’Pol an Admiral in this. I know in the novels she retires to raise her children but I’m sure she could be reinstated. Plus the novels aren’t strictly canon to start off with.

novels are not canon

 

[Jadeb]

It does if you have seen that ship destroyed - the only logical conclusion they could have drawn was that it was a Klingon impostor of some description - hence the weapons and the mind meld to check they were who they said they were. Nice to see Starfleet taking their security seriously for a change, though.

Incidentally, might be an idea to get Sarek to meld with TylerVoq, if they want to be sure he's not deceiving them.

Kinda weird that Sarek couldn't have asked Saru's permission rather than just forcing himself on him.

 

[Noname Given]

For my money, I prefer to continue to think of the UFP in the more traditional "utopian idealism" mold that's been part of Trek from the beginning.

^^^
You really need to watch more TOS as the '"utopian idealism" mold' you describe WASN'T a part of Star Trek (which began with TOS 1966-69) from the beginning. Yes, TOS had better people who had overcome racism of Earth (but still held it towards a variety of aliens.) people still WORKED for a living and earned money (Federation Credits). If the time of TOS WAS a Utopia and the Federation a moneyless society, Harry Mudd transporting wives for settlers or getting caught selling rights to a Vulcan fuel synthesizer to the Denebians - (rights he diodn't own, and thus was sentenced to be executed for fraud as the Death Penalty seemed alive and well of Deneb V. (see TOS - "I Mudd") or Cyrano Jones making a living prospecting and selling trinkets and Tribbles wouldn't exist.

Hell, as show above, in the TOS era, the Federation let member worlds KEEP their own laws and racial/social traditions, no matter what they were - and respected a Member Planet's local laws EVEN IF they didn't align with Earth's societal norms.
^^^
It was TNG in 1987 that started to retcon all the above stating:

- Earth was now a Utopia and everyone worked to better themselves because all basic needs were provided for and money was no longer used.

- To be considered for and ultimately attain Federation Membership, a world had to agree to abide by Federation (read: Utopian Earth as the basis) to 'Federation societal norms'. (And hell, the enlightened Picard chewed out Worf on multiple occasions because he dared to do something 100% ACCEPTED (and often encouraged) in Klingon society - but because they were agaisnt Picard's Federration beliefs Work got many a formal reprimand on his service record.

So yeah, the 'Utopian' bit was a TNG era retcon; and not a part of 'Star Trek' from the start AT ALL. (And IMO 'Star Trek' is better off WITHOUT that TNG retcon.) YMMV.

 

[cultcross]

Kinda weird that Sarek couldn't have asked Saru's permission rather than just forcing himself on him.

Vulcans and consent have a poor history.