Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
And be mentored by Admiral Alexander Marcus
Michelle Yeoh's a really good actress, BTW.
Well watching it now on my phone on Netflix
I would argue that "optimism and brilliance in the face of adversity" is but one of many Starfleet values and is certainly not its core value. Starfleet and Federation values also include tolerance, equality, freedom, self-determination, diversity, species rights, and scientific curiosity. So the fact that the crew of the Discovery remains optimistic in the midst of the Klingon War is not enough to say that it's Star Trek.
All of which are on show here.
Yeah, after sleeping on it, it has the same issues a lot of Discovery episodes do. As a single episode of Trek, it works okay, but as part of a larger arc, it's just bad. I think a lot of this comes down to doing serialized TV but not having a coherent plan for where the show is going/not having a steady "team" of writers who are working across the whole season.
My issue with that is HOW they plan to do that - by having the Discovery spore jump into a large underground cavern (possible because of all the Volcanoes on the planet for some reason) - and send drones up to get the info that need...(again
)
I wonder what happens to the displaced air in the location they jump to.
Yeah I hypothesised that they'd rely on a cover-up and hoped wouldn't do a reset. Though the cover-up still is a shaky story - conspiracies become exponentially harder to keep quiet with the number of people "in the know" - I am reassured somewhat in that I am less worried they'll do a reset.
more random thoughts:
So much of the fleet down and command structure in ruins explains Kirk moving up the ranks early (not as early as the Kelvinverse, but he's apparently going to get his captain's stripes fast-tracked in any universe). In the meantime, Pike should be kicking butt out there.
Did I hear the Saratoga was lost to a suicide attack? Guess that was one of the DSC classes and the first Miranda version is built later, or for all we know, immediately.
We finally met the CMO. I suspected that was her last week.
Detmer sitting down with TyVoq was a nice touch. Something she couldn't do with Burnham.
Martin-Greene is getting more chances to really act now, and I like it.
The show can stand on its own legs without Isaacs. I was worried about that. Still would welcome a prime-Lorca visit and I can't help but think Cornwell's ruminations about that will lead somewhere. This show is a mix of red-herrings and Chekhov's pistols.
I was wondering if they'd "Go there" with the eating-Saru thing. They went there in the first 10 seconds.
They REALLY like their ENT references in this show. I like it. In your face, ENT-haters. Makes me think they'll eventually handle the augment-Klingon thing. Maybe not this season, but they've got this.
So much of the fleet down and command structure in ruins explains Kirk moving up the ranks early (not as early as the Kelvinverse, but he's apparently going to get his captain's stripes fast-tracked in any universe). In the meantime, Pike should be kicking butt out there.
Did I hear the Saratoga was lost to a suicide attack? Guess that was one of the DSC classes and the first Miranda version is built later, or for all we know, immediately.
We finally met the CMO. I suspected that was her last week.
Detmer sitting down with TyVoq was a nice touch. Something she couldn't do with Burnham.
Martin-Greene is getting more chances to really act now, and I like it.
The show can stand on its own legs without Isaacs. I was worried about that. Still would welcome a prime-Lorca visit and I can't help but think Cornwell's ruminations about that will lead somewhere. This show is a mix of red-herrings and Chekhov's pistols.
I was wondering if they'd "Go there" with the eating-Saru thing. They went there in the first 10 seconds.
They REALLY like their ENT references in this show. I like it. In your face, ENT-haters. Makes me think they'll eventually handle the augment-Klingon thing. Maybe not this season, but they've got this.
The fact it’s a Klingon war is enough to “say that it’s Star Trek”.
I think Voq/Tyler will connect somehow to Augment Klingons. Maybe he will find a bunch of Augment Klingons and lead them to become the TOS Klingons.
Ok my ramblings (in no particular scene order)
1. The crew accepting Tyler so quickly....too pat
2. Burnham not being able to accept Tyler..much more realistic
3. Sorry there is no sense of 'we are almost at defeat, we are desperate' with this war. If they were stating millions of people have been lost on colony worlds or starbases and they said that a third of the Federation is under the Klingon flag. Then I could understand the desperation, but losing a few thousands of people in the Federation with a population of trillions, sorry that is not 'an enormous loss of life'. (Earth lost more people under WW2 with a much smaller population)....poor writing.
3b If you are so desperate that you are using the evil Pippa to help win your war, you need to have mega losses such as Vulcan/Andor /Tellar or even Earth is under invasion or something.
4. Evil Pippa Is going to betray them all... even my goldfish can see this one coming.
5. Tyler is going to die, he has nothing to live for. No girlfriend either Klingon or Human wants him.
6. This Sarek is more like the JJverse one, more understanding with his 'daughter' than with his son.
Re this episode - Another canon example that Starfleet Command is run by idiots..no wonder Kirk ignores orders under TOS.
I give it 6.5/10
1. The crew accepting Tyler so quickly....too pat
2. Burnham not being able to accept Tyler..much more realistic
3. Sorry there is no sense of 'we are almost at defeat, we are desperate' with this war. If they were stating millions of people have been lost on colony worlds or starbases and they said that a third of the Federation is under the Klingon flag. Then I could understand the desperation, but losing a few thousands of people in the Federation with a population of trillions, sorry that is not 'an enormous loss of life'. (Earth lost more people under WW2 with a much smaller population)....poor writing.
3b If you are so desperate that you are using the evil Pippa to help win your war, you need to have mega losses such as Vulcan/Andor /Tellar or even Earth is under invasion or something.
4. Evil Pippa Is going to betray them all... even my goldfish can see this one coming.
5. Tyler is going to die, he has nothing to live for. No girlfriend either Klingon or Human wants him.
6. This Sarek is more like the JJverse one, more understanding with his 'daughter' than with his son.
Re this episode - Another canon example that Starfleet Command is run by idiots..no wonder Kirk ignores orders under TOS.
I give it 6.5/10
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As I mentioned in my reply to @cultcross I don't think they'll do a reset (phew). I still think there are going to be quite a lot of loose threads hanging after next week but it may not be the complete mess I feared.
FWIW Yes I believe the Emperor knows *the official version of* how the war should end (from Defiant logs) and I think to have "got her on board" with this plan, they'll have to leave her fate unknown (otherwise why would you go along with a plan if you know you're gonna get killed pronto as soon as you do your bit to help?) This also leaves the possibility of the Emperor returning - Georgiou genuinely doesn't know her fate but thinks she can double-cross them all.
But I think on balance Georgiou will help them and will "go too far" - have them wipe the floor with the Klingons and plan destruction of Qo'Nos before they rebel and someone (probably Burnham) kills her. Which then becomes classified too (and hence not in the Defiant logs).
Thus they get out of their corner - the Klingons keep Qo'nos but fleet decimated. Am guessing a Connie helps save the day - likely the Enterprise under Pike, but no "within ship shots" so they don't have to reveal Spock.
FWIW Yes I believe the Emperor knows *the official version of* how the war should end (from Defiant logs) and I think to have "got her on board" with this plan, they'll have to leave her fate unknown (otherwise why would you go along with a plan if you know you're gonna get killed pronto as soon as you do your bit to help?) This also leaves the possibility of the Emperor returning - Georgiou genuinely doesn't know her fate but thinks she can double-cross them all.
But I think on balance Georgiou will help them and will "go too far" - have them wipe the floor with the Klingons and plan destruction of Qo'Nos before they rebel and someone (probably Burnham) kills her. Which then becomes classified too (and hence not in the Defiant logs).
Thus they get out of their corner - the Klingons keep Qo'nos but fleet decimated. Am guessing a Connie helps save the day - likely the Enterprise under Pike, but no "within ship shots" so they don't have to reveal Spock.
I do agree that, instead of a canon checker in the writing room, they could definitely benefit from hiring a Da Fuq? checker.
At minimum they really should have had some sort of consultant who had military experience. It would have helped both on the writing/plotting side, along with choreographing the combat scenes to be a bit less hokey and more realistic.
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