Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x13 - "What's Past Is Prologue"

[Vger23]

I couldn't get past the first 10 minutes of the 1st episode of After Trek. Thought the host was awful. Maybe I should revisit it...

Thought this episode was good. I gave it a 10. Although I agree with a lot of the criticism of how Lorca was disposed of. He threw a lot of "destiny" crap at us and his love for Burnham that we were supposed to swallow as his undoing after the brilliance he displayed all season long. A 10 was generous but I still liked the episode.

The host IS awful. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice man, but he just doesn't have it.

It's worth it to get the insights about the writing and production process though.

 

[Tim Thomason]

They ought to bring in an Edward Jellico-type captain in the next season who everyone thinks is evil. Maybe Ron Tracey?

 

[TheMadCloner]

I thought it was fascinating that they basically said that the whole theme of the season was that Lorca's presence was essentially poisoning the crew of the Discovery and casting the shadow over the typical Starfleet ideals, and that the whole idea was to show the contrast in how the crew reacts and comes together once they are kind of freed up. They said that the bridge crew is now headed toward becoming a family.

Again, if they execute this well, it's the JOURNEY I find most fascinating.

I sensed the shift in focus towards the ensemble in this episode. It basically mirrors the thematic shift in tone from the self-centered and obsessive Lorca towards the rest of the crew.

 

[Amaris]

It's a spore that contains Culber's soul. He'll start speaking to Stamets with Tilly as an intermediary.

I'm kidding of course, but I wouldn't be surprised at all, given the way the series has gone so far.

A la Counselor Troi and every single time an alien presence invaded the ship. Poor Deanna.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I understand what you are saying. But successful shows often have to evolve or call audibles from the original formula if it’s not working at the level you hoped it would. I actually like the Burnham character, but I also realize she’s not all that popular. I also don’t think she can carry this show without a strong pillar like the Lorca character. The show runners hopefully saw what Isaacs brought to the show and if he’s willing and available, I hope we see him again as a regular. And if not, they better seriously consider bringing someone in to bolster this cast.

These episodes are shot in advance of them airing.

What do you think they are going to do, halfway through the season just pull 8 episodes and rewrite and reshoot them?

thats what I'm trying to tell some of you. They aren't "pushing" anything on anyone in spite of the idea that the character isn't popular. this was all written, directed, acted, shot, everything. But week to week somr people are actingnlike "here we go again, in spite of the constant complaining on the internet, they decided to give us another michael episode"

and again, I think its a very vocal group, not a large majority doing the complaining about Green and Burnam, that is of course just my opinion. Well see what the end of season ratings are but I doubt thay green or cbs have any real cause for real concern.

 

[Amaris]

I couldn't get past the first 10 minutes of the 1st episode of After Trek. Thought the host was awful. Maybe I should revisit it...

Thought this episode was good. I gave it a 10. Although I agree with a lot of the criticism of how Lorca was disposed of. He threw a lot of "destiny" crap at us and his love for Burnham that we were supposed to swallow as his undoing after the brilliance he displayed all season long. A 10 was generous but I still liked the episode.

In fairness, the human brain does something weird when it thinks it is on the cusp of achieving a goal and getting everything it has wanted. It becomes more foolish, more prone to error. It's why you will find that even highly intelligent people put all of their winnings on 00. They can't lose.

 

[Kane_Steel]

Seriously they aren't trying to push her as the great one.

Once upon a time, before they cast the show, the wrote a story about these characters. The cadt and crew are simply fulfilling the story. They aren't making this up from one week to the other.

Thats the point you people keep missing. Her continuing to be the maon character isn't a thing they are "pushing" that's just the story that was conceived, casted, and shot.

Frankly I think a lot of people like green and burnham and the ones who are butthurt about her just cry the loudest and whine about SJW this and SJW that.

Yes Isaacs is a great actor. But he cannot and would never have been able to play Michael. He could never have been the lead in this show. If he was the lead it woulda been a different show. what you want, is a different show all together.

It would have been a better show. But you completely avoided my question You know as well as I do that Isaacs has been the best received part of this series thus far.

There's plenty of dislike and hatred for the Burnham character across the web, even from the popular YT reviewers of the series (SFDebris, Jaawin, etc). Nothing to do with SJW politics as much as a poorly executed Mary-Sue character being forced on the audience as the lead.

If you don't think the exposition and dialogue, especially in this episode, is intentionally written to elevate her in a Mary-Sue like manner, you are burying your head in the sand.


Anyway, I called that STD would go in this direction from the start. I feel bad for those who got attached to Isaacs' character, but there was no way they'd let him be a hero in this series with these producers and this plan.

 

[T'Bonz]

So intelligent of you. You sound like the retard.

Goodbye - again!

 

[Akiraprise]

The host IS awful. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice man, but he just doesn't have it.

It's worth it to get the insights about the writing and production process though.

I so enjoyed The Talking Dead and was disappointed in After Trek right away. I wished they would have had one of our fan favorite actors from the past or someone well know among the Trekkies hosting. First impression was "Who the hell is this guy?!"

 

[GeekUSACarl]

It would have been a better show. But you completely avoided my question You know as well as I do that Isaacs has been the best received part of this series thus far.

Actually I don't. I know many like you seem to complain about it and tag SJW at the end of your opinion. I didn't ignore your question either. There is nothing "mary-sue" about her character either.

And yes there is not way they'd let isaac and his character be the hero because Lorca was written as the villain. The character is a bad guy therefore, is not the hero.

 

[Lord Garth]

I so enjoyed The Talking Dead and was disappointed in After Trek right away. I wished they would have had one of our fan favorite actors from the past or someone well know among the Trekkies hosting. First impression was "Who the hell is this guy?!"

This is my opening to say Matt Mira reminds me of someone I know in Real Life. He's kind of ehhh.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

This is my opening to say Matt Mira reminds me of someone I know in Real Life. He's kind of ehhh.

He is great on the nerdist but yeah on after trek, I mean.... eh....

It may not be him though. Sometimes a format just doesn't fit certain people, or the pace of it.

 

[Ometiklan]

I really liked this episode. Gave it a 9. As with other episodes, I could have used one or two more intimate character building scenes to pad out the runtime a little and flesh out the other characters more.

So here are some stream of consciousness thoughts (I don't know if I will have a real handle on how I feel about Discovery, other than generally very positive, until I get to rewatch the whole first season after it's done):

- I felt the fight choreography, both in the hallway, and the final fight were probably the best in Trek. It has never really been done well before.

- I could have done with Lorca not falling for the "I am bringing the captured Emperor to you and coming over to your side" bit, but I didn't think it was bad, just not original.

- Glad that Georgiou survived, hope she isn't killed off nor sacrifices herself by the end of the season.

- Didn't expect the Klingon war to last beyond the end of this episode as more than a "mopping up" exercise.

- Unless they surprise me, I doubt we will see anything from Captain Killy, PU Lorca, or MU Voq. Too bad - those could have been cool bits to see. The clip from After Trek makes me doubt the ISS Discovery jumped to the Prime Universe.

- Glad to see the bridge crew working together more and getting more lines. After Trek confirms that the writers were building up to having a real bridge crew - that they were basically not growing up to their full potential under MU Lorca.

- Will be interested to see if Saru becomes the new captain of the Discovery. Apart from the situation on Pahvo, which should not be swept under the rug, I don't at all understand some people's apparent revulsion at the idea that Saru could become a captain. I think in all his interactions (aside from Pahvo) he has been reasonable and intelligent - a predilection toward caution and "flight" isn't disqualifying provided he demonstrates the ability to command as a captain should, which I think he has done. Especially in these last episodes, he has gotten a chance to shine away from Lorca.


It is interesting to read the most vehement ongoing objections to Discovery. Originally they were unsubtle complaints about the look of the show (especially the Klingons), or the visual tech level, or the The Cage-era time setting. Now the strongest, unwavering objections are more justified (having seen actual episodes) and generally focus on more substantive elements (like dialogue or character motivation). But many of them still seem fairly unreasoned or hyperbolic. Descriptions of "not Star Trek", "trash", "worst ever", or that 'now that all has been revealed as a hoax, terrible, and laughable' just continue to demonstrate a lack of objectivity about the quality of show. Though one might dislike a plot or a character, Discovery by no means can be considered "trash", and in contrast has lots of strong, well liked, and high-quality elements. At the very least I find these criticisms evidence of a lack of self-awareness that individual dislikes do not equal universal, objective understanding/opinion. I just hope that these sorts of opinions don't convince the average reader on these threads, nor are used to persuade others, that these kinds of opinions are accurate or representative of more than a tiny, vocal minority of viewers.

In other news:

Because you can't turn when traveling at Warp.

+

I believe that is the only reference to a ship not turning during warp travel, though of course we have many visual scenes showing the ship turning and no mention of changing to impulse going back to many, many occurrences during TOS and onward.

Because TNG always had streaking stars when at warp. the wounded clearly shows the Phoenix turning at warp as she heads away from the Enterprise.

Have to with agree with mswood. The 'no turning at warp' was a piece-of-crap line written in Voyager (that wasn't even paid off well in the episode), that was supported by absolutely nothing in prior Trek, and openly refuted by many instances. Discovery is in line with canon on this point, Voyager is not. Plus if one wants to argue that Voyager's statement wins, Discovery could be flying in a square with only brief, computer-controlled drops to sublight at the corners.

 

[Fateor]

There is nothing "mary-sue" about her character either.

That's just factually wrong.

The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

 

[XCV330]

I so enjoyed The Talking Dead and was disappointed in After Trek right away. I wished they would have had one of our fan favorite actors from the past or someone well know among the Trekkies hosting. First impression was "Who the hell is this guy?!"

I tried to watch it twice, but he's just unbearable. Most people have their talents and I'm sure he has his, but hosting a talk show does not seem to be his forte.

 

[eschaton]

Seriously they aren't trying to push her as the great one.

Once upon a time, before they cast the show, the wrote a story about these characters. The cadt and crew are simply fulfilling the story. They aren't making this up from one week to the other.

This is demonstrably false. Isaacs himself said when he first began shooting they handed him a script for the third episode, and then immediately told him the script would be pulped and nothing in it was going to be used. The final two episodes were also tacked on late in production when the season was expanded from 13 to 15 episodes. IIRC, they didn't finish filming the last episode before the first episode premiered.

Now, it's true that they are in no way retooling the show on the fly as a result of fan response. But they certainly didn't have a solid plan before filming even started - or if they did, it was abandoned when Fuller left.

 

[eschaton]

In fairness, the human brain does something weird when it thinks it is on the cusp of achieving a goal and getting everything it has wanted. It becomes more foolish, more prone to error. It's why you will find that even highly intelligent people put all of their winnings on 00. They can't lose.

Yeah. I've heard of this in mountain climbing. Most people die due to accidents coming down from the mountain, not going up, because they get this rush of confidence in accomplishment which makes them careless.

 

[XCV330]

Who wants to bet George Kirk will be part of season 2?

Nope. I think they've given it all the past-show sendoffs they need. Hell they even mentioned April.

 

[Cyrus]

Sullivan was on After Trek and seemed to infer that the lone spore that landed on Tilley would be meaningful in the future.

Yeah, he said it would be in season 2.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Goodbye - again!

...I... I... disagree with this. I think you may have misread nasanoel's post (or maybe I did), but he doesn't seem to be the one irrationally bringing up SJWs. He is guilty of using incorrect language and exacerbating things, but that shouldn't be a bannable offence (more like a warning, tops). But, I might be missing something. Like prior incidents or whatever.