Poll A Different Sort Of Captain?

[Matthew Raymond]

That's part of the reason I asked, stemming from the question of whether of not Trek should actual take a stand, do things differently and be willing to take some heat for putting contemporary issues forward.

Well, the problem with presenting a progressive future regarding social issues is that it becomes difficult to tackle those very issues because there's no narrative conflict to drive the story. Then again, perhaps there doesn't have to be. Perhaps just showing people who are LGBT being accepted just the way they are without it being a big deal is the best way those issues could be addressed.

Most "genderfluid" people I've encountered are females who claim they become "male" when they cut their hair, wear baggy clothes, or even wear pants. I find this very backwards, insulting to women, and very insulting and damaging to trans people, who already have a hard enough time being taken seriously by society.

I'm not familiar with such people. It wouldn't make sense if you were actually objecting to a female, pants-wearing captain with a boyish haircut, so I assume you're talking about a certain subculture who you feel are either misusing language or misappropriating/misusing ideas and concepts from the LGBT community. You may or may not have a point, but it seems like this is a topic of sufficient subtlety or complexity that we would actually benefit from a well-written portrayal of it in a TV series with all sides of the issue represented. Thus, I don't see a reason to bar any type of character from being a captain so long as the issue is addresses in a well-written way that's realistic, nuanced, and fair to all sides.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Well, the problem with presenting a progressive future regarding social issues is that it becomes difficult to tackle those very issues because there's no narrative conflict to drive the story. Then again, perhaps there doesn't have to be. Perhaps just showing people who are LGBT being accepted just the way they are without it being a big deal is the best way those issues could be addressed.

I'm not familiar with such people. It wouldn't make sense if you were actually objecting to a female, pants-wearing captain with a boyish haircut, so I assume you're talking about a certain subculture who you feel are either misusing language or misappropriating/misusing ideas and concepts from the LGBT community. You may or may not have a point, but it seems like this is a topic of sufficient subtlety or complexity that we would actually benefit from a well-written portrayal of it in a TV series with all sides of the issue represented. Thus, I don't see a reason to bar any type of character from being a captain so long as the issue is addresses in a well-written way that's realistic, nuanced, and fair to all sides.

Well I'm far from an expert on this topic, so you may be right.

But on an unrelated note, I really love your avatar.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

But on an unrelated note, I really love your avatar.

Thanks. Made it with the GNU Image Manipulation Program.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Well, the problem with presenting a progressive future regarding social issues is that it becomes difficult to tackle those very issues because there's no narrative conflict to drive the story. Then again, perhaps there doesn't have to be. Perhaps just showing people who are LGBT being accepted just the way they are without it being a big deal is the best way those issues could be addressed.

Part of what annoyed me about STD was the announcement of such things as a black female lead and Trek's first gay character. These things really shouldn't be sign-posted in this day and age, let the audience see for themselves who the characters are, what drives them, what troubles them, who they hold dear, so that whatever their race/orientation is just one small part of who they are.

I know, a little hypocritical of me when I'm asking who'd watch a show with a non-binary lead, but if it were up to me, details like that wouldn't make it into the press release, unless you're stating the biology of all the characters equally.

 

[Xhiandra]

Part of what annoyed me about STD was the announcement of such things as a black female lead and Trek's first gay character. These things really shouldn't be sign-posted in this day and age, let the audience see for themselves who the characters are, what drives them, what troubles them, who they hold dear, so that whatever their race/orientation is just one small part of who they are.

I know, a little hypocritical of me when I'm asking who'd watch a show with a non-binary lead, but if it were up to me, details like that wouldn't make it into the press release, unless you're stating the biology of all the characters equally.

Especially since Trek's already had black and female leads. Just not a "black female". Somehow, the specific combination was necessary for some box-ticking reason.

I agree with you: diversity is good, but it shouldn't be a selling point of the show.
The quality of the writing, acting, directing, effects... should be the selling points (sadly, DIS mostly fails on the writing part).

And who knows, maybe there already were trans and intersex characters. Maybe Kira Nerys was intersex, Harry Kim a trans man, ... they just didn't disclose it on camera because it didn't matter.
Hell, with 4 century of technological development, even the characters with canonical live-birth children could be trans/intersex.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Harry Kim a trans man

Would've made him a more interesting than simply the perpetual ensign.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Especially since Trek's already had black and female leads. Just not a "black female". Somehow, the specific combination was necessary for some box-ticking reason.

I'm so disappointed that they still haven't had a character who's a black intersex lesbian with one eye who's on the Autism Spectrum. I thought they were progressive.

Maybe Kira Nerys was intersex

I don't know about intersex, but didn't they imply that she was bisexual in that Mirror Universe episode?

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know about intersex, but didn't they imply that she was bisexual in that Mirror Universe episode?

Implied?

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Well, technically we only know that Mirror Kira is bisexual. I don't think they every show Kira from our universe having a lesbian relationship. Thus, it's implied that she may be bisexual because her double is, but it's not a forgone conclusion.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Well, technically we only know that Mirror Kira is bisexual. I don't think they every show Kira from our universe having a lesbian relationship. Thus, it's implied that she may be bisexual because her double is, but it's not a forgone conclusion.

It's kinda like saying that new iterations of characters are gay because the last actor to play them was. Which will mean if he's featured in STD Spock is gay.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

It's kinda like saying that new iterations of characters are gay because the last actor to play them was. Which will mean if he's featured in STD Spock is gay.

I don't follow your logic. Mirror Kira is the newer character, and she's a parallel universe doppelganger, so this isn't an actor-to-character comparison, it's a double-to-double comparison in the same multiverse. Furthermore, I didn't say that it proved that regular Kira was bisexual. I'm merely saying that it suggests regular Kira might be bisexual, giving their similarities. (I'm not familiar with Nana Visitor's sexual orientation, and it has no bearing on my argument.)

BTW, it seems to me that the Mirror Universe is very much a Nurture-over-Nature scenario, where environment and upbringing makes people villains instead of heroes. Thus, if Original Universe Kira isn't bisexual, then that suggests the far more objectionable scenario that Mirror Kira's bisexuality is the product of her environment and upbringing. Or, it could just be that doppelgangers aren't as similar to each other as we're lead to believe...

 

[Tenacity]

It's kinda like saying that new iterations of characters are gay because the last actor to play them was. Which will mean if he's featured in STD Spock is gay.

More like saying that prime-Sulu is gay owing to Abrams-Sulu being gay.

I feel that mirror-Kira's behavior was less that she was bisexual, and more to do with her priviage, malnipulating people and exercising control.

 

[fireproof78]

BTW, it seems to me that the Mirror Universe is very much a Nurture-over-Nature scenario, where environment and upbringing makes people villains instead of heroes. Thus, if Original Universe Kira isn't bisexual, then that suggests the far more objectionable scenario that Mirror Kira's bisexuality is the product of her environment and upbringing. Or, it could just be that doppelgangers aren't as similar to each other as we're lead to believe...

Not the way "Mirror, Mirror" ended. And the implication in "Crossover" (Mirror Kira's first appearance) was that Kira identified with the possibility of becoming like her counterpart.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Not the way "Mirror, Mirror" ended.

I fail to see how the ending of "Mirror, Mirror" supports Nature in a Nature-vs-Nurture argument.

And the implication in "Crossover" (Mirror Kira's first appearance) was that Kira identified with the possibility of becoming like her counterpart.

That would actually suggest that Nature is NOT the variable in that equation, since you're basically admitting it's the same in both universes.

 

[fireproof78]

I fail to see how the ending of "Mirror, Mirror" supports Nature in a Nature-vs-Nurture argument.

That would actually suggest that Nature is NOT the variable in that equation, since you're basically admitting it's the same in both universes.

I misread and apologize.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

I misread and apologize.

No problem. Upon reflection, I can see how my phrasing could get turned around like that.

@Everyone, let's turn this topic around. Would any of you have a problem watching a show where the Captain was male AND female?

 

[Butters]

If it was a Star Trek show, I’d watch it. Unless it was it was shit.

The inny and outy bits of the characters don’t really factor as a reason to watch or not, though I’ll admit to a little discomfort at the way Riker cocked his leg over the con/helm operators, but I still watched.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The inny and outy bits of the characters don’t really factor as a reason to watch or not, though I’ll admit to a little discomfort at the way Riker cocked his leg over the con/helm operators, but I still watched.

Posturing and non-verbal assertion of dominance over the lower ranks

 

[Tim Walker]

The movie Sedona could be used as a model. The film featured a gay couple, but the script didn't hit you over the head with it, it was just part of the background.

 

[urbandefault]

how about a character who never makes it know what they have going on in terms of their genitalia or sexuality? That might be refreshing.