Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x11 - "The Wolf Inside"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Oh man. Now I'm thinking about that Lorca quote. “Amazing, isn’t it. Different universe, but somehow the same people have a way to find each other. It’s the strongest argument I’ve ever seen for the existence of destiny.”
correlates awfully well with:
"We all were sea-swallowed, though some cast again,
And by that destiny to perform an act
Whereof what’s past is prologue, what to come
In yours and my discharge."
*tinfoil hat time: literary edition!*
It would be wild if, through either the Defiant databanks or Space Magic, both Lorca and Mirror Georgiou know what's "destined" to happen. That could be why the Defiant report is marked "for the Emperor's eyes only" and heavily redacted - Georgiou knows Lorca will successfully take her place with the help of Burnham.
For the sake of fun and drama, let's assume that Lorca has read the full report as well. He'd know that he needs Burnham to succeed, and he'd know how to get to the PU using the Defiant's crossover method.
It's assumed that Mirror Burnham was killed by Lorca, but maybe Georgiou had her assassinated. That way, Lorca could never be a threat to her power, right? (Cough, Oedipus, cough.) Lorca finds out that Burnham's dead and skedaddles off to the PU to get a replacement.
Time passes, the Emperor's feelin' good, and then, somehow, Burnham is back... with Lorca. Whoops.
Georgiou moves in to get 'em. She figures out that this Burnham's from the PU and gets all Macbeth-y, wondering whether she should kill this one as well:
"Besides, this [Burnham]
Hath borne [her] faculties so meek, hath been
So clear in [her] great office, that [her] virtues
Will plead like angels, trumpet-tongued, against
The deep damnation of [her gettin' spaced];
And pity, like a naked newborn babe,
[Is gonna make me feel, like, really bad.]
I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself
And falls on th' other."
Prime Burnham has never done anything to harm her... sentimentality gets in the way. There's no reason to kill this Burnham besides ambition, and the timeline consequences could be nasty. Georgiou doesn't kill her.
The players reluctantly take their places for 1x13.
Bonus Macbeth quote for timeline screwiness:
"If the assassination
Could [Tholian Web] up the [multidimensional timeline stuff],
[and keep those jerks away from my throne];
that but this blow
Might be the be-all and the end-all here,
But here, upon this bank and shoal of time,
We’d jump the life to come."
*...removes tinfoil hat* But yeah, if any detailed info about the MU was in the Defiant databanks, then Kirk and everyone probably wouldn't have been as confused in Mirror, Mirror. Could still be Space Magic, lol.
This is really good stuff, I hadn't thought about that- really clever! I'll be very happy if the show goes in a directoin even half as clever as all this.
There are two mirror universe and they both act differently from each other. Mirror universe one is the one Kirk, McCoy, Scotty and Uhura change places with their counterparts with. Because they didn't warn the Captain of the Defiant, means that there wasn't any starship entering their universe 100 years un the past.
The Mirror universe that Deep Space Nine is in, is part of Mirror universe one.
The Mirror unverse that the Discovery jump into, is Mirror universe two, which was created when the Defiant enter the mirror universe and went back in time. Base on that the Defiant enter the rift a year after Kirk and team were in the mirror universe, means that report will be in the Defiant ship computer records
The Mirror universe that Deep Space Nine is in, is part of Mirror universe one.
The Mirror unverse that the Discovery jump into, is Mirror universe two, which was created when the Defiant enter the mirror universe and went back in time. Base on that the Defiant enter the rift a year after Kirk and team were in the mirror universe, means that report will be in the Defiant ship computer records
Just watched it again. Goes to strong 9. This show is amazing.
See, I'd have thought that too. But what if the non-mirror Saru is inherently predatorial despite his species? He's certainly shown signs of NOT adhering to prey mentality at times, no?
He's shown more signs of being prey than predator.
Nope.
...Basically, every time we see the Mirror Universe, it's different from the last time.
Which is fine and well, because the defining factor of a MU is that it has the Mirror images of the specific characters who access it that day. Fundamentally, the MU is defined anew by the act of accessing. It's not an alternate history or even two: it's a collection of snapshots into realities where everybody is evil.
It's just that it need not be grossly different from time to time - the existence of infinitely many universes caters for a series of snapshots that barely differ from each other despite being accessing-heroes-centric. But they do differ, as seen in many details and a number of key discrepancies.
Timo Saloniemi
Which is fine and well, because the defining factor of a MU is that it has the Mirror images of the specific characters who access it that day. Fundamentally, the MU is defined anew by the act of accessing. It's not an alternate history or even two: it's a collection of snapshots into realities where everybody is evil.
It's just that it need not be grossly different from time to time - the existence of infinitely many universes caters for a series of snapshots that barely differ from each other despite being accessing-heroes-centric. But they do differ, as seen in many details and a number of key discrepancies.
Timo Saloniemi
Shoddy mass production should take care of that, without signifying any sort of superiority in either quality of individual ships or quality of shipbuilding industries. It's just that the Empire can shunt 79% of its budget to warship construction when the United Earth makes do with 2% - and that there are no Vulcans telling the Empire not to build starships.
We never saw superior firepower in action. If anything, the MU ships took a beating from said Andorians, Vulcans and Tellarites where "our" Archer tended to hold his ground.
The tractor beam would be spoils of conquest from the Vulcans - but it would not be "modern" tech, just ancient Vulcan stuff coming from a source that will never again develop anything new.
But it's implicit that "our" Trip and his team never get exposed to the sort of radiation that disfigured "their" Trip. If they did, and merely took a pill for it, then the issue of curing or inoculating all those assorted visitors to Trip's domain would be quite pressing and explicated.
Timo Saloniemi
That isn't the writers intentions though, it's all the same MU.
I never took the Miiror Universe to be "everything, everywhere is flip-flopped"....i.e., I do NOT think it is the case that "all good things are evil and all evil things are good", or (more to the case here) "all hunters are now the hunted".
The reason for what we see in the MU concerning the Terran Empire against other races is more of a result of circumstances being different, not becuae the MU is a universe where everything is flip flipped. DS9's Nog may have believed this to be true, but I think he was wrong.
Insisting that Saru be a predator would be akin to insisting that Lorca be a woman...
But the MU isn't just a case of a few choices having gone wrong in the past. In this universe, every choice goes wrong, in every episode. It's something built fairly deep into the scenario. Somebody chose wrong in the primordial soup already, and kept on choosing wrong. And will keep on choosing wrong until the 24th century at least.
Timo Saloniemi
But the MU isn't just a case of a few choices having gone wrong in the past. In this universe, every choice goes wrong, in every episode. It's something built fairly deep into the scenario. Somebody chose wrong in the primordial soup already, and kept on choosing wrong. And will keep on choosing wrong until the 24th century at least.
Timo Saloniemi
So you're basically saying the MU is actually a Shrodinger's Universe? How it appears changes based on how it is observed by an outside influence? And before it's observed in a particular way it exists in multiple states at the same time?
Interesting. Although I highly doubt any of the writers that have done canonical MU work have ever put that much thought into it.
Schrödinger
Sorry - forgot the umlaut! 
... and the CSorry - forgot the umlaut!
Why would the Defiant have information on the future of the MU? It's not a magic crystal ball -- it's a ship from the year 2267 in the prime Universe. The only thing Lorca et al. can gain from it is knowledge of the next ten years somewhere other than the MU.
You might enjoy the Mirror Universe comic set after Star Trek III. It explores the Klingons and Romulans as well.
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