Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x11 - "The Wolf Inside"

[Amaris]

The producer on After trek said they made Voq “human” implanted Tyler’s memories and messed with his DNA to make it pass initial inspection.

We also saw them removing whole organs, so it would seem that the real Tyler was murderated to create a more human Voq, and then memories implanted to complete the illusion.

 

[ITDUDE]

5/10, predictable episode. Tyler/Voq, Empress Georgiou. I addition, Lorca doesn't do anything (again), Voq-Tyler fight = weak
Lot's of build up (potentially) for future episodes, but on it's own, not much happened in this episode, that made me thing this is more than an average STD episode.
Oh and they better get out of MU soon. If they drag it out rest of the season, any mystique MU may have had will be gone (think of what happened to Borg, or Q to lesser degree)

 

[David]

I suppose it is possible they destroyed Tyler while making Voq into Tyler.

But I wouldn’t rule out a Tyler languishing in some Klingon prison. I think they would keep him alive in case the memories didn’t transfer fully or correctly, like a backup of sorts.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

My interpretation of the events seen in flashback was that there was a contest for control between Tyler and Voq, and that Voq ultimately won. I do not how much of the flashback is accurate to what actually happened. I do believe there was a real Tyler, whose personality engram was layered over the personality engram of Voq, thus 'burying' the latter. There would be a personnel file of Tyler in the Starfleet database, which would be accessed by the crew of the Discovery.

 

[Nyotarules]

For myself, the relationship between Amanda and Sarek can be seen as one of the fundamental flaws of the mirror universe. In the prime universe, their relationship met resistance from a subset of Vulcans, who harbored a strong bias against outsiders. I do not see how Amanda and Sarek could have a relationship in the mirror universe where the Humans aimed to conquer the Vulcans and the Vulcans viewed the Humans as an existential threat and where an union between a Human and a Vulcan would be seen as odious for both races.

I am really trying hard not to make predictions with this series. Yet, many of the predictions I have read has proven as accurate. It's getting really depressing knowing where the road goes. The joy of discovery is fading quickly.

Do you know anything about US history pre civil rights era and South African history before and during apartheid era?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Once it was established she could have contact with the Discovery, as we saw, we don’t need to see it again. As the Discovery was able to grab Tyler, then it is clear there was some prior communication. Instead of watching that redundant moment, we got to see something else.

Yes. If there was exposition, it was done early in a backhanded manner...

...That is to say, the reason for us seeing Burnham earlier telling Tilly and Saru about the secure means of communication between them was so that we later could figure out for ourselves how The Discovery knew to come get Tyler.

 

[Nyotarules]

It's Star Trek. Unneeded people on the bridge in an everyday occurrence

Like Doctor McCoy

 

[Lonemagpie]

Slightly hard to tell some of the time cos there was something wrong with the sound when I watched this one, but pretty much middle-bit-of-trilogy syndrome. That said, I'd love to write all the Empress Georgiou someday... (But doubtless that's probably already in the pipeline from one of the regulars.)

 

[Cyrus]

I think what has happened is a combination of the two people, leaving a hybrid of sorts

In the After Trek show the host asked the producer if this is something like Tuvix. And the Discovery producer (Ted Sullivan) said yes, lets call him Toq

 

[Markonian]

In the novel series ST: Department of Temporal Investigations, and its annotations, it’s made clear that within few generations alternate realities would spawn different people after the point of divergence. The reason we see the same people after generations is, they are physically the same person but at a different quantum state. The universes are entangled. When the alternate timeline is temporary, quantum doubles can even merge spontaneously and merge (with the deferred timeline personality/memories vanishing). PU and the various permutations of the MU are persistent realities however, so no risk of merger.
It’s weird though that the generational divergence begins with our heroes - ie Molly O’Brien born later, Jake Sisko not born, Kassidy not getting pregnant, etc.

Fun theory:
Imagine Discovery recaptures the USS Defiant. Undergoes refit to standard configuration and replaces its current counterpart in service...before being sucked into the past again...

 

[Xerxus]

Regarding how Spock can exist in such a xenophobic regime...

What if 'The Prophet' Sarek was working undercover for the Terran Empire the entire time? The Intel for the Fire Wolf came from somewhere. If Sarek's prophet status was merely mindmelding, then any Vulcan should suffice. Sarek being a spy/feeding info would parallel Burnham. Amanda could be a highish ranking Terran which would explain why Spock would have special dispensation.

We know how strangely connected the two universes are, so maybe Terran Burnham's parents were also killed by MU Klingon rebels, and was also adopted by Amanda which is why she is close to the Emperor.

So Sarek calls the Emperor about Burnham's strange behavior. Georgiou comes to the planet to investigate and confront Burnham.

I'm just writing fanfiction but Sarek seemed to have had such a small cameo here so there should be more.

 

[Refuge]

Like Doctor McCoy

A prisoner who is an enemy to the Empire, loitering on the bridge - duh.

It was like "Grab Lorca" he's wanted in the next scene!

 

[Mr Pointy Ears]

then as scenes I like and some I didn't,i gave the episode a 5

 

[guyute03]

Listening to this right now, good interview with Shazad Latif
http://transporterroom3.blogspot.com/

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

A prisoner who is an enemy to the Empire, loitering on the bridge - duh.

It was like "Grab Lorca" he's wanted in the next scene!

Lorca's sole reason for being there was in fact "because plot", but I'm fine with it.

This episode (as most have been since after the two-part Pilot) was plenty enjoyable enough for me not to care why he was there. If I needed an in-universe reason, it would be that Burnham could argue (masquerading as her MU self) that she wants him there because she wants to keep her enemies close. That, and she could argue that she was not yet done interrogating him, and she didn't want to bother having him being taken back to the brig if she was going to need him again soon.

Those in-universe reasons are enough for me to just "let it go" (as has become customary with us Star Trek fans over the years) and just enjoy the episode. I feel the only reason for me to want to negatively fixate on relatively minor issues such as this is if I were actively looking for reasons to not like the episode -- and if I did that with most Star Trek over the years, I would have given up on the franchise a long time ago.

Why was he on the bridge? I don't know exactly -- but because I can think of a few decent in-universe reasons for him being there, the IRL reason "Because Plot" generally works for me.

 

[David cgc]

Burnham gave a pretty good excuse last week for not wanting Lorca out of her sight or the sight of multiple loyal officers. The confusion of an attack would be a fine time for someone to try and take credit for Lorca's capture, perhaps saying they killed him for attempting escape, which Burnham was too soft to do.

 

[Tuskin38]

No picture, too dark or not seeing the shape of a Connie hull?

I'm not seeing any resemblance to the Connie.

The Gorgeau reveal was something that could have been more of a surprise though. I think if they had simply eliminated the foreshadowing of "meeting the Emperor" from the last episode, it would have kept speculation to almost nothing. Then, it would have truly been a 2x4 between the eyes when Michelle Yeoh showed up on that screen.

I was guessing it was her because it was revealed at New York Comic-Con that she would be back

I expected that too. Leveling an entire planet is a good way of showing how powerful a Connie really is. I hope the Emperor's Flagship is at least inspired by the Defiant.

We see the flagship in the next time (and I think after trek) preview, doesn't look anything like the Connie.

Say there is a peace accord reached between the federation and the Klingons later this season, surely there would be a release of POWs, might see the real Tyler then.

The producer on After trek said they made Voq “human” implanted Tyler’s memories and messed with his DNA to make it pass initial inspection.

I think what you are seeing is Voq become Tyler.

Tyler is dead, according to an interview on IGN, they used Tyler's own organs and other parts to create Voq's new persona.

 

[Vger23]

The connie is a huge reveal in the newly designed PU. For maximum viewer impact, it will be Enterprise when it's finally shown. To show it now would lessen the impact. I think @Nerys Myk has the right idea with the buried defiant inside the emperor's ship

We have JJ to thank for this. Leaving plot holes to move the action along and let the fans fill in the blanks. It's lazy writing but it's a sign of the times.

I actually don't think it's a plot hole in this case though. I think it was deliberately left for the audience to fill in the holes given purposefully left clues, like Saru arresting Tyler on the spot, which would only happen if he and Michael were in contact and completely aligned on what was going down.

 

[AndyUK]

Probably the best episode yet. Beaming down onto a planet for once and seeing the Andorians and Tellarites was great and even though the Voq twist was expected, the reveal was well done. The Mirror universe is definitely more interesting.than what we had before.

 

[Destructor]

"I can't rest here. Not really.
My eyes open and it's like waking from the worst nightmare I could imagine.
Even the light is different. The cosmos has lost its brilliance.
And everywhere I turn there's fear.
It's been two days... but they're already inside my head.
Every moment is a test:
Can you bury your heart?
Can you hide your decency?
Can you continue to pretend to be one of them?
Even as, little by little, it kills the person you really are?
I've continued to study their ways, read all that I can.
It's getting easier to pass.
Which is exactly what I feared the most."

Is it me or is this the most on-point analysis of what it's like to be alive in 2018 in pop culture right now?

Also, I am super-conscious of Fuller's original mission statement to make a show about the nature of identity. Burnham went from a human who wanted to be Vulcan to pretending to be her own mirror image. Voq is pretending to be Tyler and Tyler doesn't know who he is. Stamets looks in a mirror and sees someone else. Even if Lorca isn't from the mirror universe, he clearly could be with his 'ends justify the terrible means' attitude, and perhaps the point is that it doesn't matter if he's from the mirror universe or not.

There's something being said here about... what it is like to 'discover' yourself. I would hesitate to say there is a gay metaphor (because 'coming out' as a Klingon is pejorative, and goes into the territory of True Blood's confusing metaphors where vampires were made analogies for being gay but also were, in the universe, genuinely malevolent, which made the metaphor super confusing and sometimes quite harmful) but I think it'd be naive to say that the gay experience isn't informing the writing behind some of these stories, there is a 'realness' to all of this identity-hiding and the pain it can cause.