Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[jaime]

...Albeit unintentionally, as TIlly's looks are played exclusively for laughs - it's a plot point that she's supposed to have bad looks and worse social skills.

Of course, now that Tilly has switched roles to MU eye candy, the usage may change. Again possibly unintentionally, although I would gather the whole Captain Killy thing has been specifically designed to change the character and give her new self-assurance and whatnot. (And, no doubt, the initial goofiness was also designed as maximal contrast for this planned-for change.)

While this is what is really going on in the show, none of this has anything to do with any of the issues below:

1) Whether fans find Tilly/Wiseman attractive or not (sign me in the former camp, at any rate)
2) Whether T/W is attractive or not, in some metric or another
3) Whether T/W is a role model or not, for some agenda or another, intended or not

It is likely to have something to do with these, though:

4) Whether T/W represents a trend or an exception-emphasizes-the-rule case
5) Whether DSC will do more of the sort with other characters, that is, deviate from Hollywood rules of aesthetics on body, face, personality, teeth or whatever
6) Whether W gets typecast

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, I think they were going for *librarian swooshes down staid bun hair and pulls off glasses* ‘my god miss jones you’re beautiful’ with the Captain Killy, but I think it got tangled along the way with ‘evil is sexy’ ‘sexy is evil’ and the ‘it’s whats on the inside that counts’ is getting lost, because we Still don’t know what’s on the inside, except possibly some unrevealed till now domniatrix tendencies and a hint of sadist. It’s a wonder we aren’t now wondering if Tilly was MU Tilly all along. Character needs to be handled better.

 

[Nyotarules]

Interesting how Arne Darvin didn't get the same treatment, though, several years later with ostensibly more advanced tech available to do a better job, yet McCoy had his number within seconds of scanning basic vitals.

Starfleet learned from the Discovery's mistakes.

 

[Jack Watkins]

Hey All,

Adding my thoughts into the mix: https://wp.me/p8wVHj-aN

In short, I really liked it, but a smidge (just a smidge) disappointing to see Discovery fall back on such a well worn Trek staple.

And dammit, *SPOILER*, Tyler is Voq .

 

[Nyotarules]

Also if the Discovery now knows about what happens with the Defiant why wouldn't they warn Starfleet about it when they get back?

Who says they are getting back?...(cue Twilight music)
or it could be a temporal, predestination paradox the Discovery warns Starfleet and the Defiant and yet it happens anyway.... (TNG Time's Arrow)

 

[Nyotarules]

I hate to say this, but I wouldn't be surprised if MU Stamets and Cruz are long dead, having been euthanized earlier in life upon the empire discovering their homosexuality.

If the Terran empire is just the 'Roman empire with barbarism' in the 23rd century, they would not give a stuff about homosexuality.

 

[Nyotarules]

and that she's a 30 something year old Cadet....awkward.

Apart from there being nothing wrong with her looks, people over the age of 21 do go 'back to school'. It happens in the real world.

 

[Nyotarules]

If I were to pick a character who seems incongruously average looking, I'd actually say it's Shazad Latif. Not that he's ugly by any means, but he's kind of gangly and the beard with the undefined neck does him no favors, which makes him a bit surprising to cast as the "romantic interest" for SMG's character.

You're male right?

 

[Nyotarules]

I still maintain Discovery won't go home at all. It's going to end up in some "almost correct" universe. The Federation will still exist, but things like ship design and uniforms will be a bit different. Oh, and the Klingons will have hair.

They will end up in the Federation of the 1960's lol and like Dr Sam Beckett will never return home just leaping from universe to universe with their defective spore drive.

 

[Nyotarules]

what I don't understand is wouldn't the Vulcans be full members of the empire by now? Didn't Hoshi crush the rebellion when she got the Defiant?

Being a member of an empire does not mean you don't fight for your freedom Exhibit A.India of the 20th century

 

[Nyotarules]

I will be like Switzerland in these fan wars.

Taking everyone's money no matter where it comes from ...lol

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm wondering if we should take anyone's death in this show seriously? It's all a big cheat. Culber will surface again somehow some way. Georgiou too.

Sort of wondering about Mirror Tyler. Is there one?

TOS Shore leave
TOS The Nomad episode
STWOK
STID
etc etc

 

[cultcross]

it's a plot point that she's supposed to have bad looks

It is?

 

[Nyotarules]

To the posters asking questions about the empire you need to ask your history teachers for a refund, considering the USA used to be part of an empire. What happened to that rebellion you had?

 

[Kirk Prime]

Spock's entire existence makes no sense if the Terran Empire is humans only. How could a human breed with an alien, unless Sarek raped her? And if that happened, why would humanity allow Spock onto the Enterprise? And it was clear from Mirror Mirror that the humans and Vulcans had a very similar working relationship. When Spock threatened vengeance should he be murdered, he brought up that some of his friends are Vulcans, implying 1) Vulcans are badasses that strike fear into people, and 2) they are friendly with an Empire officer.

 

[Nyotarules]

Spock's entire existence makes no sense if the Terran Empire is humans only. How could a human breed with an alien, unless Sarek raped her? And if that happened, why would humanity allow Spock onto the Enterprise? And it was clear from Mirror Mirror that the humans and Vulcans had a very similar working relationship. When Spock threatened vengeance should he be murdered, he brought up that some of his friends are Vulcans, implying 1) Vulcans are badasses that strike fear into people, and 2) they are friendly with an Empire officer.

Possibilities:-
1. Burnham misinterpreted the data
2. Ten years is a long time politically for an empire, anything can happen including a few social reforms
3. This is not the Prime Mirror universe
4. You assume every human agrees with how the empire operates

 

[caper_guy]

Not at all. I'm just telling it how it is, without any bias.

She's a goofy comedic character. They picked an actress that fit that mold. Like I said, Melissa McCarthy in space.

Personally, I can tell they did it on purpose because past Trek shows have always cast traditionally attractive women in the lead roles (Tpol, Hoshi, Uhura [hot when she was young], Troi, Seven, Jadzia, etc].

Now that there are female and gay producers they are pushing a new agenda. It is what it is.

The only hot female on the STD cast is buried in makeup, playing the Airium alien, lol. That was intentional I'm sure. I'm cool with it, the show has bigger problems than what the actors look like.

You're digging your hole deeper....what you define as 'hot' or 'attractive' is your opinion. Others may think differently. There are other characters, including ones discussed here on Discovery, that are certainly attractive and that I'd personally put in the company of those others you've listed. A can of space worms has been opened, and I personally think the entire discussion should end. Especially about Tilly's facial abnormality (wart?) Really??!?!!!!? Come on people.

 

[XCV330]

.it's a plot point that she's supposed to have bad looks and worse social skills.

We must be watching different shows. She looks perfectly fine, and I don't think the show is trying to play her looks either way. Unless years of Trek memory ingrams are supposed to make one think "she is not in a catsuit, she is not the pretty one" (Hoshi wrecked that calculus in a perfectly normal flight suit years ago).

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Yeah, I think they were going for *librarian swooshes down staid bun hair and pulls off glasses* ‘my god miss jones you’re beautiful’ with the Captain Killy, but I think it got tangled along the way with ‘evil is sexy’ ‘sexy is evil’ and the ‘it’s whats on the inside that counts’ is getting lost, because we Still don’t know what’s on the inside, except possibly some unrevealed till now domniatrix tendencies and a hint of sadist. It’s a wonder we aren’t now wondering if Tilly was MU Tilly all along. Character needs to be handled better.

I dunno I think hers is one of the most well handled characters.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

We must be watching different shows. She looks perfectly fine, and I don't think the show is trying to play her looks either way. Unless years of Trek memory ingrams are supposed to make one think "she is not in a catsuit, she is not the pretty one" (Hoshi wrecked that calculus in a perfectly normal flight suit years ago).

Though I for one would not complain about Tilly in a cat suit, I agree 100%

 

[Nightowl1701]

Apart from there being nothing wrong with her looks, people over the age of 21 do go 'back to school'. It happens in the real world.

So that's it. I was wondering why a 32 year old was playing 20! (Works now, but if this show goes 5-7 years you'd be running into 90210 syndrome.) Tilly's in her thirties too, that makes more sense.