Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x09 - "Into the Forest I Go"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Never thought I would say this....... but for ONCE the USA is right and has the moral high ground on this.
Disappointing as the UK pretty much lead in other rights like Slavery, giving women rights ect
In snowflake land maybe.
As for me I dont see any facts, just opinions which people are entitled too.
Do and live how you want I wont stop you. But I will live in my world where there are only TWO genders and rape encompasses all forms of non consenual sex.
But we are getting off topic. And arguing with a mod is never a good idea.
I knew about this "twist" before watching the episode, so when it got to the scene where Stamets basically said he was retiring I thought "oh, that's why." Lorca is enamored of the spore drive and seemed genuinely driven to keep using it to explore after the war is over. If Stamets retired and turned himself over to Starfleet for an examination, that a.) threatens the future of the drive by exposing the illegal gene therapy, and b.) takes any further use of the drive out of Lorca's hands. Lorca stranded them in an unknown region to force the continued use of the drive, under his control. IMO of course.
Lorca may be hoping to demonstrate the drive can actually - rather than just theoretically - be used to access alternate dimensions, before Stamets is taken off-duty. That gives him a bigger bargaining chip for continued use of the drive even though Starfleet should now be capable of "picking up the slack" in the war.
I think sometimes the Enterprise writers just didn't give a damn, sorry to say
Or Lorca has another use for the drive that is unknown to everybody else, and needs it perfected for said use. Every time we've seen him act in a manner that could be described as "evil" or as nefarious has been to protect the drive, and keep it under his command.
I think it is a valid reading to see Lorca is a manipulator and an opportunist. I think he's an incredibly skilled con man when he wants to be. Note, this doesn't make him evil. Sinister perhaps, but that undertone has been present all season, in a variety of ways.
Saru and Burnham figure out a way to crack the cloak, but it will take a ton of readings from a ton of angles. What is Lorca's solution? The multiple jump pattern. It's crazy, and maybe brilliant. It works, the cloak is cracked, Starfleet scores a big win. But... Lorca also gets all of that Spore drive mapping data.
The same thing in the later discussion with Stamets. People keep saying "Lorca can't read minds!" or "He would have had to bring up the idea of one more jump for it to be a manipulation". You're all wrong. Lorca doesn't just congratulate Stamets, he explicitly brings up the fact that Klingons are coming. He knows Stamets, what drives him and motivates him. He can't know that Stamets will offer another jump, but he suspects it is likely if Stamets knows the crew is in potential danger. Lorca offers just enough information to tempt Stamets, hoping that his reading of the man will lead to the outcome he wants. I suspect if it hadn't worked, something else would have come up. Some other threat, some other piece of urgency.
My favorite aspect of the Lorca character so far is that he is somewhat inscrutable. You can absolutely see the potential that he may have manipulated people into what he wants, and mucked about with the final jump. But that isn't the only available reading of the situation. You're left to wonder, to see the hints of both tremendous heroism and potentially distressing darkness in the character. Every action he takes could be for the greater good, or for his own personal gain. The two aren't even mutually exclusive! He could mean every word of the Stamets conversation, for example, but still take advantage of Stamet's choice if he saw some gain.
People aren't always good or evil. They have the potential to be either or both in different measure. The greatest amongst us often seem to be those who can be both heroic and ruthless, self serving and gracious, kind and yet utterly violent. That people can do reprehensible things for good causes, or amazingly benevolent things for the most despicable ends is not in question. Lorca walks that line really brilliantly so far. I, as an audience member, am left to ponder his every action, his every decision. To see both the good and the bad in the man. He's utterly compelling, and I actually dread the day that the show decides to water him down and establish that he's "good" or "evil".
Awesome episode and EASILY the best we've seen of Discovery to date. The aliens from part 1 were thrown away and only mentioned via name but that was probably a good thing as part 1 didn't click for me. The pacing, acting and for once the SFX of the ships were all brilliant (though SFX for space battles still needs improving). I really enjoyed the use of the Spore Drive as a combination of transportation & weaponry and the cliffhanger ending provides potential insight into the reason the drive will no longer be used or even be unusable (maybe the Spore Network itself has been destroyed).
The Ash Tyler theory is confirmed and i'm glad since it's the best route for his character IMO and I hope the show will touch upon the whole Augment stuff to flesh it out like ENT did. Did Lorca send out the information to Starfleet before they jumped into the Mirror Universe? I also presume this is NOT the Mirror Universe we know but a different one?
My Gradings...
6
7
6
5
7
7
6
5
9
The Ash Tyler theory is confirmed and i'm glad since it's the best route for his character IMO and I hope the show will touch upon the whole Augment stuff to flesh it out like ENT did. Did Lorca send out the information to Starfleet before they jumped into the Mirror Universe? I also presume this is NOT the Mirror Universe we know but a different one?
My Gradings...
6
7
6
5
7
7
6
5
9
Your “opinion” doesn’t trump reality. The law’s definition of rape in the UK (and the complete absence of the term in Canadian law) A) doesn’t make other criminal sex offences less onerous or serious, B) doesn’t prevent anyone from using the word “rape” in colloquial, non-legal conversation OR C) make the Canadian and UK legal systems inferior and barbaric for having different terminology from that used in other jurisdictions.
Pointing out the legal distinctions to explain divergent reactions to language and vocabulary doesn’t amount to endorsing sexual assault because it has a different legal term in some countries than you expected.
My take was Stamets had a seizure mid jump.
Over on Io9, the commetariat are discussing Lorca being from the Mirror Universe and the spore drive his means of getting back home. It's certainly possible, as are any number of other motives. I'd be down for the Mirror Universe twist if not for the fact that we're definitely headed for Tyler-is-Voq, and having two of our main characters turn out to be hiding their identities for unrelated reasons is too much to believe.
I missed that too the first time around. I don't know what's going on either, but Lorca being Voq makes a hell of a lot more sense than Tyler. For one thing, killing Kol has been Voq's primary motive this entire time, and taking command of Discovery was his best chance of actually doing this. I also don't think that Tyler could have had false memories pushed on him in the month-or-so that L'Rell was working him over.
All in all, though, I don't really think EITHER of them is Voq, I think he's still off with House Mokai learning how to be a ninja or something.
Because the alternative means that he has one of the worst cases of pathological masochism. I mean, episode after episode he votes "1" and he is still watching it???And has probably never watched a single episode.
What did Tilly say during the wonky jump? "It reads as a.... something something navigational something"... does her line give us any insight as to what happened?
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
