Spoilers Tech issue with 1x06
- Thread starter RobertCardassian
- Start date
Wrong. There is evidence they did.
That's ENT-level "We didn't say Ferengi or Borg in those episodes so it's okay!" continuity.
They shot Klingons on a holodeck. Just because they didn't call it that and claim it's an earlier version of the technology (while showing perfect 3D holograms of Klingons and their ship, exactly as would be seen in later iterations of Trek) doesn't make it anything other.
I wish they'd just say they're doing their own thing regardless of what Trek's previously established. But I guess they don't want to lose those 10% of die-hard fans who said the show would be ruined if they admitted it was a reboot.
I'll get that right next time :-) I'm used to saying CSB for something else.
In TAS "the time trap" there's a Klingon on the ruling council with a flat forehead that's been stranded there since before the events of ENT "Affliction"
Except that it was not established that all Klingons immediately got infected with the virus. It could well be that between DSC and TOS a lot more Klingons will get infected. And it's not like TOS excluded the idea of bumpy forheaded Klingon just the few we saw were not.
@marsh8472 I'm seeing that your strategy is to post an argument, distract from the responses to it with a different argument, then circle back to the first argument as if the responses never happened, and keep the thread going in cycles forever. Do you even want to have a conversation?
Well, this doesn't surprise me. I remember you were saying weeks ago that the holo-coms were "Doctor level", so I know you especially struggle with this concept of "technology in stages".
Let me guess, when people thought Airiam was an android and Ted said "she's an augmented alien, not an AI", that was an ENT-level Ferengi excuse too? You've got it backwards. They aren't saying "we're not calling it that" as an excuse. The fact that it literally is not the same concept is the reason they aren't calling it that.
If, next time, the armory disappears and a holographic, fully functioning weapon appears in their hands and they have no idea the Klingons are fake, then you can claim that it's "exactly as would be seen in later Trek". But until then, as you point out, just saying something doesn't make it so.
Holographic technology is an invention, not a discovery (like, say, first contact with an alien race). The idea that it appeared out of nowhere at holodeck level just before Farpoint, and progressed to the point of the EMH 7 years later, comes from a misunderstanding of both how technology works and what was actually shown and said in those episodes. It was never established, and if it were, it would not be believable world-building.
So, no. A more proper ENT comparison would be when they showed that the Soong family began experimenting with artificial life generations ago, which IMO is believable world-building, as is holo-coms and battle simulators on the Discovery.
Yeah, they weren't the best examples. A better would be GPS. The whole analogy is moot, though, because there's really no reason to think the tech we've seen wasn't available to the rest of the fleet (other than the S-drive of course) just because they weren't mentioned, and we know that wasn't the writers' intentions.
Well, this doesn't surprise me. I remember you were saying weeks ago that the holo-coms were "Doctor level", so I know you especially struggle with this concept of "technology in stages".
Let me guess, when people thought Airiam was an android and Ted said "she's an augmented alien, not an AI", that was an ENT-level Ferengi excuse too? You've got it backwards. They aren't saying "we're not calling it that" as an excuse. The fact that it literally is not the same concept is the reason they aren't calling it that.
If, next time, the armory disappears and a holographic, fully functioning weapon appears in their hands and they have no idea the Klingons are fake, then you can claim that it's "exactly as would be seen in later Trek". But until then, as you point out, just saying something doesn't make it so.
Holographic technology is an invention, not a discovery (like, say, first contact with an alien race). The idea that it appeared out of nowhere at holodeck level just before Farpoint, and progressed to the point of the EMH 7 years later, comes from a misunderstanding of both how technology works and what was actually shown and said in those episodes. It was never established, and if it were, it would not be believable world-building.
So, no. A more proper ENT comparison would be when they showed that the Soong family began experimenting with artificial life generations ago, which IMO is believable world-building, as is holo-coms and battle simulators on the Discovery.
I agree that not every Klingon was infected. But DSC so far hasn't given any indication they're going to acknowledge what ENT did.
Show the rest of the quote though:
KIRK: We can't get through the Klingon defences in time, unless. Spock. Intra-ship beaming from one section to another. It's possible?
SPOCK: It has rarely been done because of the danger involved. Pinpoint accuracy is required. If the transportee should materialise inside a solid object, a deck or wall.
SCOTT: Even if it could work, she may be leading you into a trap.
This is season 3 too, so we're talking about some 13 to 15 years from where Discovery is now. Then they do it on discovery like it's no big deal. Why pretend that's appropriate?
Your quote doesn't say the intra-ship transportation is impossible. It says that it's dangerous. Lorca doesn't seem like the type to care.
Discovery is also a newer ship, its transporters could be more accurate, or there could be pattern enhancers installed at certain points in the ship.
They did it at least twice already without any trouble. Plus the force fields are not canon. They're supposed to be completely transparent but we see all these lines in them. Why?
Here's more:
KIRK: We're all in a trap. This is the only way out.
SCOTT: We'll go with you.
KIRK: No. That'd start the final battle. I believe her. Prepare the transporter. We'll wait for your signal.
Someone actually manning the transporter room when they transport within the ship. Like the way you had to talk to operators to make phone calls back in the day. In discovery they just tell the computer to do it. No "beam me up, whoever"
I can't decide if you deliberately keeping moving goal posts to try to stay ahead, or you just have ADD.
Naturally, if force fields looked the same, you would say it was 10 years too early to look like that.
Oh wow. That's a real tough one. Here are some more unthinkable canon violations for you:
KIRK: All right, all right, gentlemen. As you were. Rig for tractor beam, Helm. Lock onto that vessel.
SPINELLI: Rigging for tractor beam, sir.
^ Can't use a tractor beam without ol' Spinelli here. So this is not canon:
SPOCK: Computer control. Lock on to shuttlecraft following us.
COMPUTER: Locked on. Tractor beam ready.
And you might want to look away, because these ones might give you an aneurysm:
HANSEN: Sir, there's nobody up there giving orders. Mister Spock has the computers running the ship.
SCOTT: As promised, she's all yours, sir. All systems automated and ready. A chimpanzee and two trainees could run her.
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