Spoilers Tech issue with 1x06

I'm sure someone must have posted this by now, but:

- In the 22nd century (Archer's era), they had holographic projectors

- In the 23rd century (Kirk's era), they had a rec room holodeck (The Animated Series)

- In The Undiscovered Country, the Federation President communicates via hologram

And the holograms in DSC are not physically touchable like 24th century ones.

See the video above.

 

Having the computer do the beaming for you is so that no human intervention is needed. Why does it matter if the ship is empty? Kirk said he can't get back after he left. You're also reading too much into the example, that's not the argument I was making. I said they need someone to operate the transporter in those days. You could have provided a counter-example if I was wrong there but you did not. I accept your concession on this matter.

And you provided the counter-example I'm assuming, but you did not with the transporter example. Kirk said he can't get back. He didn't say "I can't get back unless I rig the computer to let us come back if we need to".

that image looks flat to me. The assumption is that the federation possess the technology because they transmitted this image. The Klingons could have taken the 2D broadcast and made it into a holographic projection. Or if it is a 3d hologram they could have just created the illusion of 3d themselves. Not seeing any proof here.

 

In Star Trek terms, a "hologram" is just an image projected against a properly configured forcefield. If you can project images and make forcefields, you can make holograms. Simple as that.

Starfleet clearly has mastered the use of forcefields, and even in TOS this was obvious (forcefields in prison cells, shielding their ships, etc. Project an image onto that forcefield, and you've got a hologram.

Their absence in TOS is an issue of budget and the producers' not actually knowing what "holograms" are as such, since the first photorealistic depiction of that doesn't show up in special effects until Star Wars a few years later. Considering advanced holographic technology was already in use by the Vulcans and the Xyrillians a century later -- and especially considering the "ancient" Kir'Shira relic turned out to be a fucking holographic projector itself there is literally no call for the claim that this technology shouldn't exist in the 23rd century.

What shouldn't exist are flash-replicated landscapes beamed directly into position on a 24th century-style holodeck, along with tactile-realistic and fully immersive holograms with fully actualized personalities dynamic enough that they border on self-awareness. And we don't see that, so it's no problem.

Really, it's like if I showed you a typewriter from 1917 and you saying "That's obviously a fake! they didn't have computers in 1917! That doesn't belong to that era!"

 

An important distinction is that holograms prior to TNG seem to be simple light-projections.

But in TNG and after, they are physical, and can be actually touched.

In DSC's holographic training sim, they didn't seem that advanced.

 

They did show holographic type effects on the bridge before but never ones produced by federation technology. I couldn't care less about budgets anyway. The fact of the matter is they didn't have holographic technology on the Enterprise.

You wish it was like that. It's really like "Hey I read in science magazine that they made a flying car prototype, that means that there are flying cars everywhere just like in Back To The Future 2"

 

I don't understand why you people keep responding to Marsh.

 

Or ANY technology, for that matter. It just wasn't something they ever thought of as being an actual technology.

Sure they did. They had it in TAS "The Practical Joker." And they had forcefield technology (portable at that) which is just a hologram without a projector.

So they HAD it, they just rarely USED it. Because Budgets.

It IS like that. You're comparing three dimensional light projection against a moving forcefield to a dynamic real-time matter replication matrix with full tactile immersion and pretending they're the same thing. This is like comparing a typewriter to a PC and claiming they're both "word processors."

That they both produce pages of typed documents doesn't make them the same technology. Printing presses were invented in the 13th century, but nobody ever confuses them with Xerox machines.

"Flying car" is and has pretty much always been just a consumer-end version of the helicopter.

We definitely have helicopters today (we've had them since the 1960s). And the holographic technology we see on discovery is basically a "helicopter" to TNG's "flying DeLorean." Yes, they do the same basic things, but the similarities end there.

 

Suddenly wondering that myself.

 

So you are saying that a ship can't have technology that was not used by another ship that was ten years older.

I am very bored.

 

Same reason people keep watching Jackass I imagine.

 

Are we assuming the ship is a testbed for new tech beside the spore drive?

 

The same reason I respond to you. Most people aren't giving the Disco's the time of day as you can see. I don't know why I keep responding to you all most everyone else gave up on you already

 

Holographic capability by humans has been long chronicled as part of Star Trek canon as far back as Earth before World War 3, this is pretty common knowledge and I'm sort of embarrassed for people that don't know this

 

You lost your tech argument, badly. You tried a lame attempt to prove your argument by editing Memory Alpha and got caught. Then you proudly took credit for the edit as if trying to discredit MA was your goal all along. Then you tried to contact CBS (or as you know them: CSB) to tell them to tell themselves to change their canon policy regarding TAS on StarTrek.com. Now you're doing juvenile "I am rubber, you are glue" responses to people expressing frustration with your intransigence.

It's time for you to either admit you were wrong or just walk away from this debate, because carrying it on like this comes across like trolling. Enough.

 

You have been provided a counter-example: DSC 1x03, Lorca activates the transporter via computer.

Your response is that DSC 1x03 is not canon, because in most other episodes people operated the transporter console manually.

I'll concede to that, on the condition that you concede to the following:

1. The Menagerie is not canon, because Spock activates the tractor beam via computer with no helm officer. In most other episodes people operated the tractor beam manually.

2. Day of the Dove is not canon, because Spock controls the transporter from the bridge with no transporter officer.

Sorry, the rules don't apply differently just because one episode aired in the 60s and one aired this month.

Now this is funny.

First of all, you're confusing two different points. TUC was only brought up to highlight the silliness of your argument that the same technology can't exist in 2 different periods. Speaking of, did you ever figure out how paper could have existed in that office? Let me refresh your memory:

So the first problem, as mentioned, is that you're assuming that technology must only exist at one given moment. But if we grant you that, this logic becomes even more incoherent because you're now excusing TUC by saying that the Klingons and the Federation had the tech at different times. But for some reason, the same doesn't apply to your first point. You're happy to let non-Federation Romulans represent 2380s technology, but not to let non-Federation Klingons represent 2290s technology. And you're still willing to accept that Klingons had this technology for 90 years without seeing it again on-screen, but not accept anything in DSC that was unseen in TOS. Phew!

Of course, this is all easily reconcilable by the concept that everyone - Federation, Klingon, and Romulans - actually did have this basic technology all along, just like DSC suggests, but that would just be too simple for an evolved being such as you, who has transcended such things as common sense, to accept.

...Alice had not a moment to think about stopping herself, before she found herself falling down a very deep well.

 

But they're not depicting it in their show. At all.

TOS: No holograms
TAS: Rec room holodeck
TNG: Amazing new holograms, ignores TAS
DS9: Amazing new holographic comms
VGR: No holographic emitters outside sickbay, explicitly says no holodecks during TOS.
ENT: Holographic target practice.
Pre-TOS DSC: Mundane holocomms, emitters everywhere on board , something which looks and acts exactly like a holodeck but Twitter tells us it's not

Drink that kool aid.

 

Mostly they care about interesting stories. Scientific accuracy has never been a high priority in Star Trek.

IIRC, half of the time if not more of the time we see shuttle craft they are traveling at warp.

They have a room that uses holograms. If you wanna call that a "holodeck" I guess you can. In TAS they call that a recreation room. TAS is pretty much TOS season four.

There was no virus in TOS. In those days Klignons came in to varieties: Guys with bushy eyebrows and grease paint. And guys with bushy eyebrows without the grease paint.

 

I guess the surprise of the snowball didn't allow that to sink in.

 

The point is that is not a holodeck in discovery nor do discovery claim it is a holodeck. It is only claim by nitpicking fan boys.

 

But it doesn't.

There have been several posts in this thread countering that point.