Sez you.
Spoilers Tech issue with 1x06
- Thread starter RobertCardassian
- Start date
"Early stages" does not mean having a fully functional holodeck which hides the entire room, creates the illusion of depth and prospective. Geordie was talking in the context of technology advances in the last 80 years when he said "wait until you see the holodeck".
Memory alpha acknowledges that there has been no official word from CBS on whether the animated series is canon or not
I go to that page and the line you pointed out is not present. Also the paragraph below that states that canon is Star Trek continuity presented on TV and Movie screens. The Animates series was on TV screens in 1973 and 1974. Therefore, canon under CBS policy.
And interestingly, I refresh the page and it is suddenly there, when it wasn't a minute ago.
Is someone have a wiki war over canon right now?
Quite. I suspect this is exactly what some are getting hung up on, without remembering the specific details of what is said...
RIKER: I didn't believe these simulations could be this real.
DATA: Much of it is real, Sir. If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam, then back to the original pattern again...
RIKER: Yes, of course. And these rocks and vegetation have much simpler patterns...
DATA: Correct, Sir.
It is reasonable to interpret that Riker has indeed experienced other simulated environments before, but none so completely indistinguishable from reality. And as Data explains, part of what makes it "that real" is that much of it is in fact actual rocks and trees (though I presume not actually alive) and water—as we see demonstrated when Wesley emerges into the corridor dripping wet) created (or beamed in from elsewhere, and the trees are alive?) by the transporter. The "simulation" is not in fact all simulated. That could be among the elements that distinguishes what meets Harry Kim's 24h-century definition of a "holodeck" from what doesn't. Not that I'd ever want anything so specific spelled out and nailed down with no wiggle room, personally...
Which seems more plausible though. A holodeck existing on the Discovery as a normal thing while clinging to the animated series to defend it? Or this being yet another element among many elements of that series that don't belong there? 
I don't have to tell you the answer. You know the answer 
I don't have to tell you the answer. You know the answer
It's. Not. A. Holodeck.
From what we've seen thus far, it's a combat simulator. Combat simulations utilizing limited holographic elements via holo-emitter technology were seen conducted by both Starfleet and the MACOs in the 2150s already. This is but one of many functionalities that will later be incorporated into the integrated facility known as a holodeck, along with the recreational purpose of the facility seen aboard the NCC-1701 in "The Practical Joker" (which was actually planned to be shown in the third season of the original live action show but never came to fruition until the cartoon).
From what we've seen thus far, it's a combat simulator. Combat simulations utilizing limited holographic elements via holo-emitter technology were seen conducted by both Starfleet and the MACOs in the 2150s already. This is but one of many functionalities that will later be incorporated into the integrated facility known as a holodeck, along with the recreational purpose of the facility seen aboard the NCC-1701 in "The Practical Joker" (which was actually planned to be shown in the third season of the original live action show but never came to fruition until the cartoon).
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The computer said "hologram battle simulation complete" sure. But they were in an environment that turned into a room. That's called a holodeck.
Guess you're gonna need to make another one of those "non-canon" memes for "Flashback" (VGR) then, because in context of everything else it seems to indicate otherwise.
(Takes care of the twin Valtanes and the timeline inconsistency with TUC too!)
EDITED TO ADD:
Oh, and make another one for "Take Me Out To The Holosuite" (DS9)...
SOLOK: I need use of a holosuite. The T'Kumbra holodecks are currently under repair.
SISKO: To arrange holosuite time you have to go through Quark. He owns the only ones on the station.
Even 24th-century holosuites are not properly called holodecks.
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Because Discovery is the only Trek going at the moment (bar a possible movie in 2020), and future TV Treks are likely to have the same creative forces behind it, isn't it more accurate to say:
EVERYTHING BEFORE DISCOVERY
NON-CANON?
They're cherry picking bits of previous Trek lore and otherwise doing their own thing. As far as DSC is concerned, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VGR and ENT are apocryphal. The D7 is wrong, the uniforms are wrong, what Harry Kim said one time was wrong etc.
No it isn't. A holodeck is a specific thing, not just "a hologram of a room".
How can something that's already been shown in the future be "retconned" to have occurred in the past, in contradiction to canon? My understanding was that retconning could only be performed in a series that happened at a later time in the ST universe, to explain (fix) past inconsistencies. That seems more legit to me than the type of "retcon" you're describing.
Still diggin DSC.
SPIN
So now you're just rehashing your posts from the beginning of the thread. Hoping the newcomers won't notice? Too bad they were shot down just as quickly this time around, though.
LOL, no one is "clinging" to TAS to defend this. You just tried to distract everyone with an argument about TAS's official status, which was entirely pointless because we already know you don't care about official status.Which seems more plausible though. A holodeck existing on the Discovery as a normal thing while clinging to the animated series to defend it? Or this being yet another element among many elements of that series that don't belong there?
Meanwhile, you're clinging to out-of-context lines from TNG and VOY, arguments from ignorance like "They've never mentioned holograms in the original series", and completely reinterpreting concepts like food synthesis in TOS.
But all of that is nothing compared to the stunt you just pulled, as we'll see at the end of this post.
I've seen no evidence that Discovery has a "fully functional holodeck". Are there physical holo-props? Forcefield-based terrain and interactive objects? Notice how they walked out with their actual guns. This isn't a holodeck yet. It's laser tag. Yes, "early stages".
And now, this thread has jumped the shark.Memory alpha acknowledges that there has been no official word from CBS on whether the animated series is canon or not
This was put up for the first time last night, and was reverted exactly one minute later because "no proof of anything to say that they're not acknowledging it." But you happened to grab a screenshot that minute.
You're either incredibly lucky, or you're 184.59.2.57. You could have at least spelled CBS properly...
Retcon is short for "retroactive continuity," inserting something into something that already happened. Prequels are the perfect opportunity for this.
Kor
You know, in the main episode thread I predicted that there would be a ridiculous thread complaining about the "holodeck" and I was right. If someone is not going to enjoy a show that features a holodeck in a blatant disregard for the so-called canon they have inside their own head, then stop watching the show. It's as simple as that.
So here's the full history:02:26: He adds it to the page
02:27: It gets reverted
02:48: He adds it back, takes screenshot for his post*
02:54: Reverted
02:58: He adds it back (this was the time you posted)
04:11: Reverted
09:53: Protected "Canon": Counter-productive edit warring
*We know the screenshot was taken immediately after he added it here, because the top right of the screenshot shows the "Surak" article was edited by Josiah Rowe 17 minutes ago. History shows Josiah Row edited Surak exactly once at 02:31.
So, I have read all thirteen pages of this thread and this is my takaway:
- There is a fighting simulation room on Discovery. It uses holographic technology for the targets, although the targets are much more advanced than the last time we saw Starfleet use holo targeting in Enterprise.
- In TNG Geordie said "Wait until you see the holodeck" refering to the advances technology has made. This could imply that holodecks weren't around at all before that but in the light of DSC's simulation room I find it far more likely that the "incredible advances" line was at least in part reffering to advances within holo-tech and not its inception.
- Harry Kim said that in the movie-era there were no holodecks. That could be read as there being no holodecks on starfleet's ships (maybe because they pose to big a distraction) or (granted a bit more outlandish) there was a strong anti-holodeck movement that ultimately led to the banning of holodecks (because you'll get square... eh.... 3D eyes when you use the holodeck too often or sit directly in front of it). Alternatively we should consider what Janeway said immediately prior: "Romulans hiding behind every nebula. Even [...] Their ships were half as fast." The first statement is and obvious exaggeration. The Constitution class had a cruising speed of Warp 6 with a maximum speed of Warp 8. Voyager's maximum speed is Warp 9.975 and according to "Pathfinder" its average speed is Warp 6.2. Of course these are only two specific classes and maybe the rest of the fleet was a lot slower in the 23rd century but even the NX class had an average speed of Warp 5, so unless there were pretty much no advances in warp technology between ENT and the launch of the Constitution class Janeway's second statement has to be an exaggeration too so I don't think it is far fetched to assume that Kim's statement was at least in part exeggerated. Maybe holodeck's were around but only for battle simulations (until some "incredible advances" around the turn of the century were made) and that's what Kim meant.
Guess you're gonna need to make another one of those "non-canon" memes for "Flashback" (VGR) then, because in context of everything else it seems to indicate otherwise.
(Takes care of the twin Valtanes and the timeline inconsistency with TUC too!)
EDITED TO ADD:
Oh, and make another one for "Take Me Out To The Holosuite" (DS9)...
SOLOK: I need use of a holosuite. The T'Kumbra holodecks are currently under repair.
SISKO: To arrange holosuite time you have to go through Quark. He owns the only ones on the station.
Even 24th-century holosuites are not properly called holodecks.
People trying to turn nothing into something again I see. Bashir referred to a holodeck on a ship as a holosuite during episode Inquisition. They mean the same thing
BASHIR: So you beamed me out of my quarters into this holosuite when I was asleep.
SLOAN: I believe we allowed you a full hour.
Oh, you ain't ignoring your way out of the Memory Alpha editing, mate.
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