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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe"

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It simply isn't possible for Ash to just be a red herring. His entire prison backstory is already proven false, and there is no way there's any innocuous reason to lie about how he survived the prison.

But the lie can be a red herring, too. After all, the one untrue bit is him rotting in the cell for seven months - but seven months is a number given to Tyler by Lorca, while the Lieutenant himself seems to think it couldn't have been that long.

Was it just me or did the writers and producers realize the screwup of the "D7" in the previous episode and tried to alleviate the problem in the dialogue of this one? At one point somebody on Discovery refers to the ship that captured and was holding Lorca as a Bird-of-Prey.

Saru in "Choose Your Pain" called the ship a Bird of Prey, too. And a prison ship.

However, his bridge officer said they were tracking the battle cruiser that had abducted Lorca, so there's a contradiction there.

And it doesn't help, because the ship we saw was the one they called the battle cruiser and the D7. The admittedly externally "almost" unseen ship where Lorca, Mudd and Tyler were actually held may have been a Bird of Prey, with the mere 30-40 crew Tyler speculated on (meaning Lorca could basically have captured the entire ship, at the rate he was vaporizing those Klingons!), but that isn't much consolation.

Now, we know that continuity within the Trek universe isn't spotless and never will be and both B&B and Abrams f'd up and called Klingon warships by the wrong name ("Warbird").

Why should we think it's a wrong name? B&B are probably the ones in the wrong, for mistakenly thinking that their completely appropriate name was "wrong".

Timo Saloniemi
 
There's no reason to believe the ship that captured Lorca was the same ship that was holding him, is there? It was specifically referred to as a 'prison ship' - which would not be my first choice of ship to take behind enemy lines to kidnap a high value target.

L'Rell is not part of the main war.

This is a side game for her, or she is working for a power we have not been introduced to, or... Kol is house of Kor. Why isn't Kor representing the house of Kor? It's possible that L'Rell is Kol's Boss... Who could be very closely related to Kor, or even Kor herself, if she dies inside the next ten years before someone else starts leading the house, who we saw in TOS.

L'Rell may have a dozen ships, or she may have one ship.

If L'Rell has a dozen ships, then it's fricking obvious that the only reason that Voq's crew (including L'Rell) was starving was that it was her will to starve them, weakening their resolve, to put Voq into a position where he is easily manipulated into her knight (or dog).

Besides, This week Tyler said that they escaped from a Bird of Prey, and I want to say that those small attack ships can only fit a dozen crew, but there is evidence to the contrary, that you can fit a dozen crew and 2 humpback whales in a Bird of Prey.

They are spacious. :)
 
The producers admitted it was a wrong name and the incorrect terminology made it into the final prints of those productions. Good enough for me. Besides, before 2001 no Klingon ship in the history of the franchise had ever been called a Warbird. They said it was a screwup. Works for me. ;)
 
Every commander has favourites for various and sundry reasons. Some they want to mentor because they can see potential. Others...well, because they have an agenda. Who knows about Lorca and Burnham? Lorca and Ash...that's an interesting case. It could be that Lorca sees Ash as someone like him, someone he has empathy for. That naturally brings people closer. Or, on the other hand, Lorca may be suspicious and he's putting him under close observation. He doesn't want to involve Starfleet counter-intel--yet--but he wants Ash near. It's a risk, but... Lorca, it occurs to me, is one of those uncanny folks who can pull high-risk/high-gain gambits over and over again and come out smelling like a rose.

But as for being a dick to Stamets...well, he deserved it. I actually observed a scene like that not once, not twice, but three times during my military career. It's always the same set-up, too. The guy or, as in the third incident, the gal, gets into the service for the "education benefits" but really didn't expect to do hard-core military work. A day job, in other words. Then comes 9/11 and Iraq. All hands on deck. The Air Force and the Navy are sending Airmen and sailors to do some of the Army's job because the Army is in the middle of a service-wide reorg to the Stryker brigades and is short-handed, and...well, you can imagine the situation next. Although the young servicemen and women have a small point--"I got in to the Air Force or the Navy, not the Army or the Marines"--the more cogent point is...that's irrelevant. They are there to do the job they raised their right hands for, whether or not it was in their original AFSC or rating. I saw commanders tear into each one of them--all three incidents--because, frankly, those folks should have known better. The CO was simply reminding them of their responsibility. Stamets got, what?, a mild verbal reprimand that lasted a sentence or two. The dressings-down I saw lasted many, many long minutes. Stamets should consider himself lucky. If anyone had talked like he did to pretty much all the commanders I'd known, he or she would've been strung up. Letter of Counselling, at least; maybe, if the CO was particularly incensed, a Letter of Reprimand. In other words, the kiss of death for an officer and, under some circumstances, even an enlistedman/woman.

Actually, you know who Stamets reminded me of, early-on? He talked as if he was David Marcus, not someone who willingly got into the military arm of the UFP knowing that something like this could have happened.

Now, granted, Stamets has grown on me. He's loosened up, got his head screwed on straight, and has become one of the more interesting characters on the show. But, originally, he sounded like he was from Berkley, this was the Late Sixties, and he was protesting conscription and Vietnam, not someone who was in an all-volunteer force.
Lorca definitely likes to pick those who he feels deserve a second chance like he received, whether that includes Tyler is another matter after all you keep your friends close but your enemies closer still.

I think he handled Stamets well, there are clearly side effects from use of the drive and I would expect Culber to be keeping a close watch on his health anyway so no problem, in any case Stamets has delivered the goods and that will earn him a certain amount of goodwill from Lorca. I cant say I blame Stamets for loosening up, he not only proved the viability of his technology but he actually used himself as a subject, that must be quite the thrill.

I will love it if Lorca is section 31, those marks on his back are just another hint to the possibility, there have been a fair few others as well as mentioned by other posters on this forum.
 
So. Thought experiment. If we take Saru's threat ganglia seriously...if Lorca was such a threat, why hasn't Saru's ganglia gone off like gangbusters?

Aside from bad writing--always a possibility--the most parsimonious answer is that Lorca isn't a threat.
I think Saru subconsciously marked Burnham as a threat after the mutiny and that is why the ganglia were constantly reacting to her presence, as soon as he realised that he was the problem they didn't react any more.

Which makes me think they are not quite as independent from him and reliable as he thinks they are.

They are still most impressive as they even sensed that Burnham didn't get on the shuttle in the 3rd episode and Saru had no way of consciously knowing that, the problem is that he marked her as a threat when she wasn't one and I think he realised that at the end of the 5th episode.
 
I'd say it becomes exploitive when they bring back the post-Vietnam trope of the crazy veteran. If Lorca actually turns out to be evil--rather than that being the misperception of a segment of fandom who's never had military experience and do not understand that, sometimes, commanders have to make difficult decisions and, no, they don't have to be nice about it--then they might very well cross that line, particularly if they excuse any perceived evil behavior as having and etiological nexus in any post-traumatic symptoms Lorca may or may not evidence (and, as I've said elsewhere, right now, he's not symptomatic for PTSD; rather an acute stress disorder).

But, so far, I'd say Lorca's pretty much the only character who's portrayed more or less realistically, given what we know about him thus far. Much moreso than Michael, who somehow went from Ensign to Commander and First Officer in seven years, or Stamets, who's apparently forgotten he's in the military, or, certainly, Tilly who, as a cadet, just does not belong on a ship of the line. All the others are slowly fleshing out--too slowly, perhaps--but Lorca, almost the from the beginning, actually felt like a character with heft and weight.

We'll see. But, yeah, it's good to see a character like this rather than flawless captains with unrealistic resilience and aptitudes.
For me Lorca gets better every episode, Burnham has grown on me and so has Stamets and Saru as well, hard not to see Tyler as Voq due to the scriptwriters practically bashing us over the head with it.

That could easily be intentional misdirection though.
 
Spock and Sarek are examples of the ones who are genuinely good people despite this while the others are....not.

Only two 'good' Vulcans out of a fictional race of billions. Classic definition of stereotyping? Star Trek only show a few Vulcans in the whole Star Trek universe, I suspect just like in real life, the rest of the ordinary Vulcans could not give a pekh who can get in the Vulcan expeditionary force and who cannot. How many Americans before civil rights were up in arms that certain folks could not get into the the best US institutions unless they were white and stinking rich?
 
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Klingons are like ISIS, Trumps supporters, whatever shitheads you want to demonise that isn't you..
 
The producers admitted it was a wrong name and the incorrect terminology made it into the final prints of those productions. Good enough for me. Besides, before 2001 no Klingon ship in the history of the franchise had ever been called a Warbird. They said it was a screwup. Works for me. ;)

The culture that has Birds of Prey and Raptors isn't allowed to have Warbirds? (And no, that culture is not the Romulans - they never had a ship called Bird of Prey, contrary to fan misconception.)

Before 1966 or so, no Klingon in the history of the franchise was called Klingon. Is the name an error, then?

Screw producers. After all, they have no staying power, as evidenced by them, well, not staying. :p

Timo Saloniemi
 
Nah, millions of buildings built on a planet populated by six billion people looking all alike is what would be... Not unusual, but literally crazy.

EDIT: I was never crazy about Vulcan architecture in The Forge / Awakening / Kirshara, not because it didn't look good, but because it looked almost exactly like Coruscant.
They are following Surak's book on architectures - How to use Logical Lego
 
I think Vulcan in "Lethe" looks a lot like Vulcan as seen in the Kir'shara arc on ENT. The architecture is roughly the same with arched doorways, rust-colored buildings and many pointed spires. And for those who say the sky is too blue, remember that T'Pol once said that the skies on Vulcan occasionally get as blue as that of the planet visited in "Strange New World."
 
Sooo...
Looks like mushroom network will go bye byes at end, possibly becoming the universe of species 8476, Ash is Klingon dude, but with the underlyinhpg themes of ‘know yourself’ etc cropping up, he’s actually going to help broker peace because of his relationship with a fellow orphan adopted by a grand House (burnham) and he’s probably been deliberately infected with the augment virus to make him Human (hence giving up everything.)
Tilly is going to die tragically (never make plans for after the war in a war movie. Never.)
All of this for me is where bits of this episode and last are basically going.
Lorca...well...Lorca will probably die but be redeemed, possibly actually helping his ‘friend’ who he refused to help here...or when Saru realises he is not prey, he is himself, more than some species stereotype, and removes him from command.
The Klingons will eventually all go full Human before some start returning to what we know is their ‘true’ appearance from previous Treks (Kahless doesn’t look like a Neville Page wet dream after all.)
All the hints were dropped in these last two episodes...between that and the yellow hatches on the food dispensers, I would say we are still not necessarily into reboot territory (holo tech is not the holodeck Of later series, everything is in line, more or less , with this all fitting between ENT and TMP via an imagined higher budget TOS.) and it’s definitely improving on the naffness Of The first few episodes.
A few better design choices would have improved it, but now I can see where they are likely going narratively...it’s not so bad. It’s one hell of a bunch of damaged individuals on that ship mind you.
 
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