• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe"

Rate the episode...


  • Total voters
    303
Right. Medical professionals normally get the Straight-to-O-3 express. Not general scientists, though. In fact, I've never seen a direct accession scientist get anything but an O-1. And Stamets was an astromycologist. He studied space shrooms. Cannot imagine Starfleet wanting too many of those... ;-)

Fair enough. But if Starfleet believed that Stamets's spore drive project had uniquely game-changing strategic potential, I could see them conscripting him specifically to get a hold of his project, and start him at a grade where he could have a degree of authority over the development team.
 
It isn't so much reacting to Michael's character traits/journey but her presence as a *lead*. She has the thread of being the lead. The build up and the dialogue from the others to prop her. However at the end of the episode she is not the one I'm thinking about or wondering what they are going to do next.

Absolutely.

For me, it breaks suspension of disbelief to have a mutineer as a lead. Everything she does, I see through that lens and find her wanting. No matter how hard they've tried to give her a full background, to somehow explain away her reactions, it all comes across to me as special pleading. She's simply not a likable character, from my perspective. And the more they push that angle, the more my dislike increases. I sincerely don't care how difficult a childhood you've had, how challenging your circumstances are. A mutiny is a bridge too far and completely unsympathetic. It taints the entire redemption arc.

It would've been better had she simply made a tactical mistake and had to live with the consequences. But assaulting her mentor? Attempting to commandeer the ship? No. That's very clearly a Hollywoodism.
 
It certainly is Hollywoodism, and I had generally the same reaction. But within the context of Star Trek, where we've had Our Heroes commit mutiny on more than one occasion -- including assaulting fellow Starfleet officers, commandeering the Enterprise more than once (and once scuttling her!) -- and getting away with a wink, I'm at least appreciating the fact that her character seems to have suffered some consequences, and with some humility.
 
The crazy spin is only when they initiate the drive. When it drops out of it, it just appears. And the saucer sections are spinning when it drops out so they did use the s-drive...not sure how though.

It's cos spinning is so much cooler than not spinning.

leN1iqw.gif
 
Really enjoying Lorca's character arc so far, it brings up some great issues surrounding PTSD (another tick in the "Star Trek" box for anyone who's counting), and also that of TV in general.

As a fan I think they're using Lorca's symptoms/condition/etc it to great effect and loved the way they introduced a "shady" character but only acknowledged his reasons later on (although to be fair, we never saw Lorca before to get an accurate comparison, he could also have been nuts beforehand anyway), but at what point does the awareness/entertainment value ratio start to be exploitative of such a serious condition?

I'd say it becomes exploitive when they bring back the post-Vietnam trope of the crazy veteran. If Lorca actually turns out to be evil--rather than that being the misperception of a segment of fandom who's never had military experience and do not understand that, sometimes, commanders have to make difficult decisions and, no, they don't have to be nice about it--then they might very well cross that line, particularly if they excuse any perceived evil behavior as having and etiological nexus in any post-traumatic symptoms Lorca may or may not evidence (and, as I've said elsewhere, right now, he's not symptomatic for PTSD; rather an acute stress disorder).

But, so far, I'd say Lorca's pretty much the only character who's portrayed more or less realistically, given what we know about him thus far. Much moreso than Michael, who somehow went from Ensign to Commander and First Officer in seven years, or Stamets, who's apparently forgotten he's in the military, or, certainly, Tilly who, as a cadet, just does not belong on a ship of the line. All the others are slowly fleshing out--too slowly, perhaps--but Lorca, almost the from the beginning, actually felt like a character with heft and weight.

We'll see. But, yeah, it's good to see a character like this rather than flawless captains with unrealistic resilience and aptitudes.
 
Fair enough. But if Starfleet believed that Stamets's spore drive project had uniquely game-changing strategic potential, I could see them conscripting him specifically to get a hold of his project, and start him at a grade where he could have a degree of authority over the development team.

Depending on the service, though, scientists don't have that kind of authority, even given the rank. Really, the medical career fields in the U.S. military are a bit of a joke. Not much on the rank n' file kind of thing. Scientists? Even worse. There's a hierarchy, of course (hence, the ranks), but it's not like it is for regular line officers. In the Navy, they have Limited Duty Officers and Warrants to who that kind of specialist work. The AF's officers who are also scientists are not in command of squadrons or anything like that, as well.

Now, that having been said, I concede your point. He could have been conscripted (and, anyway, I'm just providing the perspective from a U.S. and UK military paradigm, which Starfleet is largely based on, but they likely have some operational differences). But, contextually, it seems like he was working on the spore drive before the war and didn't appreciate Starfleet putting it on a ship of the line. But that kind of resource allocation couldn't've come from anyone else other than the government; hence, Starfleet. It's too radical, probably too expensive, and too experimental for something the private sector would've been doing. And its very secrecy--the fact we've never heard of it until now--seems to militate against a private sector approach. Hence, back to Starfleet.

I just think it makes more sense to say he was already in Starfleet but he was--like most of the personnel of the day--of the mind that Starfleet was more of the exploratory mission-set than the military one...and was quickly disabused of that notion by his CO.

But, again, I'm open to reinterpretation if more evidence comes to light.
 
Absolutely.

For me, it breaks suspension of disbelief to have a mutineer as a lead. Everything she does, I see through that lens and find her wanting. No matter how hard they've tried to give her a full background, to somehow explain away her reactions, it all comes across to me as special pleading. She's simply not a likable character, from my perspective. And the more they push that angle, the more my dislike increases. I sincerely don't care how difficult a childhood you've had, how challenging your circumstances are. A mutiny is a bridge too far and completely unsympathetic. It taints the entire redemption arc.

It would've been better had she simply made a tactical mistake and had to live with the consequences. But assaulting her mentor? Attempting to commandeer the ship? No. That's very clearly a Hollywoodism.

I find anyone who would condemn Michael to be unsympathetic because it was clearly an action brought about by trauma, recent injury, and terror for her friends as well as family. Sending her to life in prison for her actions shows Starfleet is a deplorable organization given OUR legal system would have drummed her out for psych reasons.
 
Will be interesting to see what else besides killing his crew has affected Lorca in his past. Not sure I’d want him as my captain yet, but outwitting an army of psychiatrists and breaking out a good single malt goes a long way for me. +3 Lorca this week.
 
Depending on the service, though, scientists don't have that kind of authority, even given the rank. Really, the medical career fields in the U.S. military are a bit of a joke. Not much on the rank n' file kind of thing. Scientists? Even worse. There's a hierarchy, of course (hence, the ranks), but it's not like it is for regular line officers. In the Navy, they have Limited Duty Officers and Warrants to who that kind of specialist work. The AF's officers who are also scientists are not in command of squadrons or anything like that, as well.

Now, that having been said, I concede your point. He could have been conscripted (and, anyway, I'm just providing the perspective from a U.S. and UK military paradigm, which Starfleet is largely based on, but they likely have some operational differences). But, contextually, it seems like he was working on the spore drive before the war and didn't appreciate Starfleet putting it on a ship of the line. But that kind of resource allocation couldn't've come from anyone else other than the government; hence, Starfleet. It's too radical, probably too expensive, and too experimental for something the private sector would've been doing. And its very secrecy--the fact we've never heard of it until now--seems to militate against a private sector approach. Hence, back to Starfleet.

I just think it makes more sense to say he was already in Starfleet but he was--like most of the personnel of the day--of the mind that Starfleet was more of the exploratory mission-set than the military one...and was quickly disabused of that notion by his CO.

But, again, I'm open to reinterpretation if more evidence comes to light.

The problem with this is that it's 100% that Stamets was conscripted, his technology taken from him, and forced to use it for the military.

That's his plot.

He was researching it and then it was put to work for Starfleet. As for civilian sector work--one word "Genesis."
 
I find anyone who would condemn Michael to be unsympathetic because it was clearly an action brought about by trauma, recent injury, and terror for her friends as well as family. Sending her to life in prison for her actions shows Starfleet is a deplorable organization given OUR legal system would have drummed her out for psych reasons.
That Trauma against the Vulcans who tried to kill her?
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top