• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"

Rate the episode...


  • Total voters
    332
I think they could just brush aside any questions from survivors about how they got there so fast.
Indeed. I'm a Niner as well, and I love the flawed characters on that show.


The closest ship was 84 hours away. The Discovery shows up in under 5. Rumors have a tendency to spread, but if you don't show yourself at all to the survivors, problem avoided in the first place.

congratulations to both of you as you just proved that neither the discovery (as a whole) nor captain lorca (as a person) belong to section 31. the survivors will talk and there talk will be:

"there came a ship out of nowhere, vaporized the klingon flotilla and went it's way"

section 31 can't allow that can they? if section 31 was involved in thisone that planet needed some sanitizing. and that just didn't happen.
 
I think I am going to love this episode when I see it after reading just two pages of this thread.

Georgiou = Lunch - I am a breast man myself.
Discovery = Built in Spinner
Lorca = Shoot to Kill

Will go through properly once I have watched it later on.
 
Just realized something, the Spore Drive initiation effect reminds me of a TV show Braga had a hand in, Threshold. An alien probe made similar movements when it attacks a fishing vessel in the premiere ep, folding in on itself.
 
I thought it was a bit strange for Discovery to pop in, destroy the attacking Klingons and then pop out without offering any medical assistance to the survivors. We even got a "Who was that masked man?" vibe from one of the surviving children.
I don't blame Lorca for that to be honest, he really cant afford for anyone to see the ship for too long, any enemy combatants that see the ship have to die so they cant spread the word.

Its so Section 31.
 
I


But look, as the chappy above said - Voyager haters can go to buggery. And if you choose to not go to buggery, a critical vocabulary beyond 'it didn't take risks' is sorely needed. Nobody wants to potty train your critical thinking vocabulary 16 years after the show went off the air.

.

Voyager actually got me into Trek, when I was 14 but when I watch it now and compare it to TNG, Deep Space Nine or Battlestar Galactica it's severely lacking. Here's some additional vocabulary for you:

- It was basically a watered down TNG. The writers never really made the delta quadrant feel strange or dangerous. The ship got thrown 70,000 light years and we're seeing aliens that don't look that different from what we saw in the Alpha Quadrant. Granted we got the Caretaker, The Swarm and Species 8472 and the vidiians, but the series needed more of those types of aliens. The Delta Quadrant could have been strange and weird and deadly, filled with crazy anomalies and space monsters but it turned out to be just as boring as the alpha quadrant. We're told ad nauseum how dangerous it is but that rarely made it on screen. Voyager epitomised that the production team had run out of ideas and couldn't stretch themselves creatively. The amount of holodeck episodes that Voyager had is testament to this. The ship is in uncharted space but hey, let's have the crew explore fake ireland instead.

- There was never any sense of danger or hardship because the replicators always seemed to work, replacement shuttles came out of nowhere, torpedoes were endless. The ship could suffer a massive alien attack and be fully repaired by the next episode. There was no danger or drama because of this. Why should i care about the warp drive almost being destroyed in when i know that there will be no lasting repurcussions beyond the end episode. Why should I care about the crew needing to stop at this planet for food when neelix just replicated a cake for someones birthday? The ship should have been falling apart from the constant Kazon attacks, which seemed to happen mostly offscreen, but the ship always looked like it had rolled off the assembly line floor.

- The following of 'Federation values' wasn't very realistic given their situation, and generally curtailed any stories that may have been morally or ethically challenging and led to a thought provoking episode. Janeway and the crew should have been placed in more situations that threatened their ethics or their morality like the episode Prime Factors. Janeway in particular should have been given more opportunities to be conflicted over whether to follow federation values or have her crew starve to death. The writers should have provided situations that not only challenged the crew morally, ethically and culturally but the audience as well. I think they failed in this regard.

Those are just some of my critical thoughts about the show. I could include more, but the criticisms I have on Endgame alone could probably fill a thread of it's own. Overall I don't mind Voyager, I appreciate it for what it is and will always love it for introducing me to star trek. Watching it as an adult and comparing it to the stand out drama's both sci-fi and not that have come out in the last 16 years it doesn't hold up well. It did have some solid episodes but i feel voyager never really lived up to its potential. Sadly I think it was mostly a victim of writing fatigue, the same people had been writing trek for years and I think they just reached a point of burnout. There was too much playing it safe because I don't think Rick Berman really respected the intelligence of the audience, and it shows in a lot of the creative decisions (or lack thereof) that were made.
 
Just watched it, I haven't read what anyone else has written.

A bit wobbly, but much better than the previous one. I give it a solid six.

The sporedrive keeps getting more surreally stupid, but I'll do my best to look past it (it is very difficult though.)

Voq is a total wimp, no wonder other Klingons do not respect him. He should've challenged Kol to a duel to the death. I like Kol, he seems like a proper Klingon (and is a better dresser than T'Kuvma's weirdos.)

My favourite part was the space tardigrade. The detective work about its role and and the nature, as well as befriending it were really satisfying, and (the sloppy science aside) exactly the sort of thing I want to see in Star Trek. Reminded me of 'the Devil in the Dark'. However, I wish they'd spent more time on this aspect of the plot, and them being able to just plug the coordinates from the creatures brain was far too easy. I'd have preferred if they would have needed to actually learn to communicate with it.

And the Darwin award goes to Commander Landry. Damn, that was stupid.
 
No, I got all that but it's poor writing.

And the Klingons are the ones who can't make a distress call is my point.

considered battle damage?


... and the director not wanting to bore everybody with yet another klingon scene to explain that
smilie_startrek_019.gif
 
I'm all for having the Discovery blown up and making it an all Klingon show. I'm not here for the Federation, I'm here for the promise of a Klingon-Federation War.
 
Tilly knew it was the right thing to do. I think Michael unknowingly influences her, because she is a cadet, and is impressionable. That said, it may save her life someday. Also, Lorca being a results oriented Captain, I think he would overlook her action because it lead to the spore drive working to where they saved an entire mining colony and gave the Klingons a bloody nose. That is, if he knows about it, which he probably does.
I very much doubt there is anything on the Discovery that Lorca is not aware of.

He is that kind of Captain.

Still have to wait until later to watch it, its killing me but not as much as it killed Landry.
 
It's funny to think that people are so caught up n their own viewpoints and biases that they can't conceive of the most simple and rational explanation for the high scores that are being generate:

Because lots of people happen to be enjoying the show more than you.

I know...I know...it's almost unfathomable...but give it some thought.

;)

That's an absurd hypothesis!
 
Voyager actually got me into Trek, when I was 14 but when I watch it now and compare it to TNG, Deep Space Nine or Battlestar Galactica it's severely lacking. Here's some additional vocabulary for you:

- It was basically a watered down TNG. The writers never really made the delta quadrant feel strange or dangerous. The ship got thrown 70,000 light years and we're seeing aliens that don't look that different from what we saw in the Alpha Quadrant. Granted we got the Caretaker, The Swarm and Species 8472 and the vidiians, but the series needed more of those types of aliens. The Delta Quadrant could have been strange and weird and deadly, filled with crazy anomalies and space monsters but it turned out to be just as boring as the alpha quadrant. We're told ad nauseum how dangerous it is but that rarely made it on screen. Voyager epitomised that the production team had run out of ideas and couldn't stretch themselves creatively. The amount of holodeck episodes that Voyager had is testament to this. The ship is in uncharted space but hey, let's have the crew explore fake ireland instead.

- There was never any sense of danger or hardship because the replicators always seemed to work, replacement shuttles came out of nowhere, torpedoes were endless. The ship could suffer a massive alien attack and be fully repaired by the next episode. There was no danger or drama because of this. Why should i care about the warp drive almost being destroyed in when i know that there will be no lasting repurcussions beyond the end episode. Why should I care about the crew needing to stop at this planet for food when neelix just replicated a cake for someones birthday? The ship should have been falling apart from the constant Kazon attacks, which seemed to happen mostly offscreen, but the ship always looked like it had rolled off the assembly line floor.

- The following of 'Federation values' wasn't very realistic given their situation, and generally curtailed any stories that may have been morally or ethically challenging and led to a thought provoking episode. Janeway and the crew should have been placed in more situations that threatened their ethics or their morality like the episode Prime Factors. Janeway in particular should have been given more opportunities to be conflicted over whether to follow federation values or have her crew starve to death. The writers should have provided situations that not only challenged the crew morally, ethically and culturally but the audience as well. I think they failed in this regard.

Those are just some of my critical thoughts about the show. I could include more, but the criticisms I have on Endgame alone could probably fill a thread of it's own. Overall I don't mind Voyager, I appreciate it for what it is and will always love it for introducing me to star trek. Watching it as an adult and comparing it to the stand out drama's both sci-fi and not that have come out in the last 16 years it doesn't hold up well. It did have some solid episodes but i feel voyager never really lived up to its potential. Sadly I think it was mostly a victim of writing fatigue, the same people had been writing trek for years and I think they just reached a point of burnout. There was too much playing it safe because I don't think Rick Berman really respected the intelligence of the audience, and it shows in a lot of the creative decisions (or lack thereof) that were made.
And yet still better than Discovery.
 
I'm not sure why people are so down on the Klingon make up - especially tonight, Voq and L'Rell have tremendous chemistry, and both Iqbal and Chieffo are excellent in how they use their eyes, their breathing and their physicality. That scene over the warp engine, the wonderful betrayal featuring Kol, and the final scene on the Shenzhou.... These were my favourite scenes tonight. Where are we being led, I wonder?
 
Because TNG didn’t feature war mongering starfleet captains? They did. And why is it so hard to fathom some Klingons practice some form of cannibalism? We have cultures on earth to this day that do. Trek has been dark and gory, I mean serious 30 years ago we had TNG Conspiracy, a very graphic episode.

And also comparing Darmok a great 5th season episode to a show’s first few isn’t really fair. You do realize the fourth episode of TNG was the almost universally hated Code of Honor. Imagine the outcry that would get if that was the new episode in 2017.
Klingons have been speaking about ripping out and eating the hearts of their enemies since TNG days, so Discovery is spot on stating that they actually do, its not just hyperbole.
 
A solid 8.5 from me, definitely the strongest episode so far.

Likes:
- Lorca's lab has been revealed and didn't become a season long mystery

- Lorca continues to impress with how complicated he appears to be. Jason Isaacs does an outstanding job of portraying Lorca as a man with layers upon layers but without giving anything away (if that makes sense). Lorca has a job to do and he gives zero fucks about your feelings, he respects what the stakes are and expects his crew to get shit done. The distress signal scene was really effective at conveying this.

- The 'Jump' effect for the spore drive was awesome. It was like the ship was origami-ing itself. I also liked that the outer and inner rings of the discovery rotated. I don't recall this occurring when the ship engaged it's warp drive.

- Burnham being a scientist and being the only person on the ship to consider that ripper wasn't a hostile predator. I liked the relationship she developed with it.

- Ripper was cool and adorable in a weird way. Poor dude just wanted to eat spores. I'm looking forward to the inevitable ethical confrontation that is no doubt going to happen about this creature's well being. Definitely got a devil in the dark vibe.

- The softer side of stamets

- The resistance to Discovery being used as a warship by Lorca. Both Saru and Stamets have issues with this. I feel that there is going to be conflict between Saru and Lorca in the near future. I also get the impression that Saru was not Lorca's pick for first officer.

- The Klingon and Federation transporter effects are pretty cool.

- Tilly was great again. She falls apart in social situations but always comes through in a crisis.

- The exploration of the Klingons. What they did to Georgiou was deeply disturbing and i think that was the point. I like finding the Klingons disturbing, the audience should be afraid of these guys. I liked the relationship between Voq and L'rell. I'm interested to see them visit the Klingon Matriarchs of House Mo'kai.

- Landry's death. I don't usually hate tv characters, but Landry really got under my skin. She was an idiot and I am glad she died like one. Her arrogance and overconfidence were her downfall.

- Seeing Georgiou again.

Dislikes:

The Klingon subtitles proved to be distracting for me this episode. For some reason I wasn't bothered during first and second episodes. The actors portraying Voq, L'rell and Kol portray a lot of emotion with their eyes and upper body. The subtitles detracted from the performances in some scenes.

- Georgiou bequeathing Burnham her telescope. It felt really contrived. I just find it a bit hard to believe that starfleet would have returned to the Shenzhou to collect personal belongings either intentionally or incidentally. The dialogue during this scene however was beautiful


Looking forward to next week!
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top