Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"

[Quinton O'Connor]

I would rather refer to Ripper as Frances.

Also, After Trek was really good tonight. Jason Isaacs, Doug Jones, and special guest Rekha Sharma of dearly-departed Landry fame were all hilarious.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Klingon's don't have food synthesizer technology? Or is it possible that Klingons need live food, and synthetics won't do it for them? Unless their "farm" ship was hurt in the fight, there was no reason that they should go hungry unless the ship is not supposed to be away from "civilization" for so long, and hey were just idiots not to take a supply fun to a shop.

It could possibly a be a religious issue? Maybe they are only allowed to eat what they kill (in times of war)?

Maybe Voq took on survivors from the other ships that were blown up, and there were too many mouths to feed.

Maybe they're too awesome to use food synthesizers? It's a crutch used by weaklings.

The Tombship had bodies as old as 2000 years on it, which in Star Trek lore might mean it's not a Klingon vessel at all but a Hurq. In which case, it may not have replicators on the ship or a more simple Occam's Razor answer that it did have replicators but they were knocked offline by the bomb.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But is it a relative to 8472?

Spores drown in fluid.

 

[Sakonna]

I'm trying to remember... are there any deaths in Trek stupider than Landry's? She may win the Trek Darwin Award!

This is a harsh comparison, but this terrible Klingon pacing reminds me of Winn & Dukat in the final DS9 arc. We've run out of story with too many episodes still to go before the finale, so let's have our character suddenly realize they have to spend 5 episodes sitting in some room studying this old book before anything else can happen...

Yes, which makes him a ridiculous idealist who is not pragmatic enough to be a genuine threat to the heroes. It shows him as stupid and unwilling to do what is necessary to win. It's a bad bit of storytelling if we're supposed to buy this guy as a villain.

It's funny, until I read this I hadn't been processing Voq as a villain. Maybe it's just that they've talked about L'Rell more in interviews and Mary Chieffo has been more prominently featured in the press, but watching the Klingon scenes, I was processing it as being a story about L'Rell, (who will probably ultimately turn out to be a hero somehow?), and everyone else there is just her supporting character. I get the logic of the war, but on-screen the Klingons feel so disconnected from what's going on with Discovery, it's hard to see the one side as actual antagonists of the other.

 

[Saul]

"oh hey i'll let this shield down and get myself killed by this monster". The crew of the Discovery remind me of those assholes from nuBSG Pegasus.

Besides that this was actually the first episode of 'Discovery' I liked. It felt the most Star Trekky episode despite the cliche parts and the Discovery saving the day with the shield percentage count down. I like the development of the klingon character although he is still talking too much.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Tombship had bodies as old as 2000 years on it, which in Star Trek lore might mean it's not a Klingon vessel at all but a Hurq. In which case, it may not have replicators on the ship or a more simple Occam's Razor answer that it did have replicators but they were knocked offline by the bomb.

TNG Replicators, magically teleport in front of your eyes food.

TOS Synthesizers, behind a door, stuff happens, then then you have a bowl of chicken soup.

Lets just say that they are very different devices, however we saw the ship make Michael her uniform today, which looked like a similar technology to replicators, because they were rearranging very small "particles" somehow.

 

[Noname Given]

I get it. I just think it's contrived and stupid. She kills him when she doesn't have to, even though the whole point of going there was to capture him and prevent a war. Her mentor gives her life for that plan and Burnham throws it all away. And she's supposed to be influenced by Vulcans?

Basically, she's willing to let millions die because she wants revenge. That's absolutely un-Trek like, at least for the non-villainous characters. Long way from Kirk trying to save a Klingon who was trying to kill him after causing the death of Kirk's son.

She had a 'heat of the moment' burst of emotion. She didn't say to herself - "Okay, for that I will kill him..."; it was more of a "What! You're DEAD!" reactive moment. It fits given her background; and if anything at that point she began to realize she wasn't as 'Vulcan' as she thought. Yes, it was a BAD action to take and she's been kicking herself for it ever since it happened.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The tombship bodies could have been on a castle or a seaship, and the original coffin depository was "turned" into a spaceship after warp was discovered. More so the job of doing what it was doing was passed on to more complicated vehicles as they became invented.

If the crew was hungry... They should have eaten the recently lost in the battle of the binary stars.

 

[pst]

i liked this episode a lot. i was emotionally impacted by several moments, especially the plundering of the shenzhou - and that’s a lot for a show that’s only 4 episodes old.

but then i realized that putting the water bear in the machine was anathema of starfleet principals full stop. there’s no debate about exploiting an animal for the greater good. we already know it’s wrong now and it should be especially egregious in the star trek universe. there’s no way to make this ok. it just falls apart from that point on. it’s low hanging fruit and emotionally manipulative story-wise and boxes these characters in... if burnham learns her lesson or comes to realize the error of her actions here next week or the week after that, it still leaves the ugly question of why she and lorca and landry did what they did in the first place.

 

[oberth]

I think if they did a couple of lines in Klingon and just transitioned to English for the rest of the scene..it would be so much more tolerable.

The way TSFS and TUC handled the Klingon language was perfect. DSC should take note.

... and others who follow that path

i think you are all tricked into hating them klingons (not even speaking english and such). i bet the moment the war is over they start to speak english again.

as a european i'm used to see subtitled movies all the time. it's a lot better than having them dubbed or - even worse - remade for an american audience. it's also a great way to start learning a language

 

[Guy Gardener]

When I was a kid, subtitled movies meant naked women.

I'd put up with a lot to see a boob or two for less than a minute.

Still do.

 

[oberth]

Even though they ate Captain Georgiou, that wouldn't make them cannibals, as Georgiou is a different species of animal to Klingons.

theoretically you're right but i'm sure we'll update the term cannibalism to eating sentient beings after that night in bozeman, mt

 

[Guy Gardener]

Klingons won't eat cowards.

That's where they'll draw the line.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Klingon's don't have food synthesizer technology? Or is it possible that Klingons need live food, and synthetics won't do it for them? Unless their "farm" ship was hurt in the fight, there was no reason that they should go hungry unless the ship is not supposed to be away from "civilization" for so long, and hey were just idiots not to take a supply fun to a shop..

You don't remember how Kurn responded to "burnt replicated bird meat?"

 

[oberth]

Still debating my rating but it'l be in the 6-7 range. I'm having a difficult time understanding 9-10 or 1-3 ratings (but then, that's why I'm trying to read all these posts).

am i the only one who believes she's dead to free a slot for a 'numbered officer' to reinstate burnham?

 

[Sakonna]

2. Yes, it makes them more villainous, but they were also starving. The show acknowledges this fact, and we don't know that they would've done it if they had the choice.

I think L'Rell is communicating delight at the ritual of eating Georgiou. She's recollecting how Voq smiled as he picked the skin off her "smooth skull", it feels like a pleasurable event -- it's not the type of tone or imagery you would use if you are eating this body under duress, to avoid starvation.

but then i realized that putting the water bear in the machine was anathema of starfleet principals full stop. there’s no debate about exploiting an animal for the greater good. we already know it’s wrong now and it should be especially egregious in the star trek universe. there’s no way to make this ok. it just falls apart from that point on.

There's a lot of truth to this. I can definitely get to Lorca just ordering it because it's a dire emergency, but it still feels like a scene is missing. The one Trek device I'm really missing here is the conference room scene. I want to see the ensemble sitting down together to try to hash out the best way to solve the problem at hand.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You don't remember how Kurn responded to "burnt replicated bird meat?"

Replicators are a higher order of technology than synthesizers.

The worst reason I came up with for why they had no food is that they didn't have any money to buy food for the Klingon shops 3 stars over... When really all they needed to do was maraud any prewarp world nearby and take what they needed.

 

[saddestmoon]

Score: 9 for me.

That Ep was good, and had a little bit of everything needed.

Enjoying the spore drive sequence, and 'Ripper' is an interesting addition to the 'crew' of the Discovery (to totally ignore the discomfort / pain it appears to go through, when the drive is activated).

Gotta say, my intrigue levels are hitting maximum after watching hat Ep!

Watching that space!

 

[Logopolis]

What a dumb character death.

But I am growing to like the Captain and Engineer.

 

[cultcross]

Yet you like discovery but not enterprise, you fucking haters make me want to kill myself.

enterprise is more trek then discovery, also fuck all the Voyager haters too.

Please don't attack other posters views like this, it isn't acceptable.

Infraction for Flaming, comments to PM.