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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"

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Many more smaller, faster ships would probably be better to span one's empire and hold it by force. And in packs of 3, there is a good advantage to firing from three sets of guns from three different angles. But they still don't have the massive punch of the larger weapons on a larger ship that can carry larger phasers cannons and the energy sources to power them. The same for the shields.

I remember in The Search For Spock, whatever vessel the klingon had there, he assessed the Enterprise outgunned him 10 to 1. I can't be sure when or if those smaller looking scouty looking vessels began to approach the D-7's or D-7 looking vessels in raw power, but 3 of those would still be less than the Enterprise.

One D7 is a threat, of course, but one Constitution class ship would pretty much always beat it. Even 2 might lose a fair percentage of the time. But 3 should pretty much guarantee Klingon victory. I think that's why they travel in packs of 3, at least near the klingon border. Federation shield tech is usually ahead of the klingon shield tech. One shot from V'Ger and the klingon is gone, but it took more than that to get the Enterprise.

Anyway, though I should have a decent idea of how 3D space is laid out, I'm not sure about this, but I think the Klingons are bordered by the Feds on one side and the Romulans on another side. So they need lots of ships to protect both fronts, plus, since they tend to hold things by force, a fair number to keep the planets they have subjugated under their thumb. Unless they can guarantee the Romulans aren't going to attack them, or they no longer care if their back ranks revolt, I've never felt they could send enough ships into Federation space to take on Earth, Vulcan, Aandoria, Tellar Prime, and who ever else is supplying the ships of the Federation.

But then we don't really have a detailed view of the back ranks and subjugated planets and resources of the Klingon Empire. Suffice it to say, the Romulans always felt they needed to join with the klingons, or keep the klingons and the Federation apart, to be secure. Since the trio seemed well balanced, each region remained relatively stable. To just assume one group and can pick up and beat another so handily without help or blessing or some other change in that dynamic mystifies me. And with the klingon philosophy, if they could do it, I think they would have done it. So something happened in the Yesterday's Enterprise timeline that shifted that balance of power. Given the romulans were involved in the attack on Narendra III, and in that timeline the Feds had no idea what happened to that lost ship C, it seems reasonable the Romulans were able to shift the balance of power, probably by putting a wedge between the Feds and the Klingons, joining with them, or supplying them. But in the prime timeline, the word got out, the Romulans failed to keep their covert operation off the books, the Klingons heard the Enterprise-C fought to the death for a klingon colony, and relations remained good between the Feds and the Klingons, while soured between the Romulans and the Klingons (given worf's attitude toward them).

If the reasoning is unsound, I'm keen to hear why anyone thinks so, but to simply state one just thinks the Klingons can do it all on their own doesn't give me much to work with. TWIMC.
 
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I enjoyed the first episode. What was nice was that I didn't feel that I was watching Starfleet's finest. I didn't feel that I had to view the show from the perspective that the heroes were in the right. I just watched it play out, watched them be as intrigued and confused as I was. It was refreshing.

The characters seem quite nuanced already. I enjoyed the banter. Even the supporting characters didn't feel like they were there just to deliver dialogue. I felt that each of them could perhaps develop into something more. It was a good start.

Michael's dual upbringing is a much nicer way of playing the child of two worlds than yet another half breed. It definitely adds some interesting possibilities to her character.

I disliked another starship in low atmospheric flight but at least it didn't land. I disliked new alien races on the bridge in preference to just adding more layers to established ones. I really disliked Michael seemingly using a nerve pinch - I always fancied that there was a telepathic component otherwise why wouldn't everyone learn it. Allowing Data, and now a low strength human to do it compounds that illogic.

As far as gender dynamics go, it was very nice to have two female leads but I'm guessing that's not going to last, almost like the writers assume the public just couldn't take that for long. It's set in an era when only a third of the crew was female but if you strip out the leads, I'm not sure that's true in the wider cast. It will be frustrating if they don't aim for parity in the main cast and a third in the wider cast. The Klingons quite obviously have very few women on board. Given how few Klingon women there seem to be throughout Trek history, there must be an awful lot of same sex relationships going on. That could also be intriguing!
 
I really disliked Michael seemingly using a nerve pinch - I always fancied that there was a telepathic component otherwise why wouldn't everyone learn it. Allowing Data, and now a low strength human to do it compounds that illogic.

I always assumed the nerve pinch was simply a difficult technique to use that required great strength and great accuracy. Therefore, most people wouldn't bother to try to learn it because there are easier/faster methods available (phasers), and they probably wouldn't be able to pull it off well, anyway. And those species that were strong enough often likely weren't as interested in that level of non-violent intervention when they could just as easily knock someone out. I'd say that's very consistent with what we've seen. Data is one of the few people we've seen who also had the strength, accuracy and nonviolent commitment which would make use of the technique logical. Burnham grew up on Vulcan, so she presumably spent a long time learning the accuracy required but she is still human and therefore lacking strength, which is why the effects wore off so quickly when she used it.
 
The fact Spock tried to reach it to Kirk demonstrates it doesn't require a psychic component since Kirk couldn't supply that component, and maybe not even strength beyond a human's capability, but since Kirk can't get it, he probably isn't mastering the accuracy or precision necessary. And even then, without the strength, it might not last as long. I can only assume with captain Giorgio's quick recovery, Michael has the accuracy, but not the strength for the deep and sustained nerve pinch.
 
I really disliked Michael seemingly using a nerve pinch - I always fancied that there was a telepathic component otherwise why wouldn't everyone learn it. Allowing Data, and now a low strength human to do it compounds that illogic.

She obviouisly learned the technique; BUT, it was obvious if there is a strength component she didn't have it because when a Vulcan did it (assuming to Doctor with a stimulant available); it lasted hours. Burnham knocked Captain Georgiou out for all of about two minutes. (She seemed quite surprised when the Captain walked out too.)

To me that says: "No she really can't perform an effective Vulcan Neck Pinch."
 
Humans have done it and Spock tried to teach it to Kirk.

I think Archer did it at least once while on Vulcan searching for the Kir'shara, though to be fair he had Surak's katra inside his mind at the time. That brief fusion of the two also allowed Archer to teach T'Pol how to mind meld with Hoshi during the Klingon Augment arc.
 
The general gist seems to be that you need extensive Vulcan training to do it, either through learning it the normal way (Data) or through mind meldy goodness (Picard, Archer). Burnham could go either way.
 
The general gist seems to be that you need extensive Vulcan training to do it, either through learning it the normal way (Data) or through mind meldy goodness (Picard, Archer). Burnham could go either way.
Yeah, I understand that my previous theory is decidedly destroyed by several canon scenes but I just think it's silly to suggest that aliens of varying species can all be affected by the same instantaneous nerve pinch or that it would not be used more widely across more species, particularly strong species, if there wasn't some kind of telepathic doping involved. The concept just makes even less sense without that sticking plaster.
 
Shame this series isn't mainstream like all the others and only available for a selected online audience. I have nooo idea what any of you are saying here :brickwall:
 
Yeah, I understand that my previous theory is decidedly destroyed by several canon scenes but I just think it's silly to suggest that aliens of varying species can all be affected by the same instantaneous nerve pinch or that it would not be used more widely across more species, particularly strong species, if there wasn't some kind of telepathic doping involved. The concept just makes even less sense without that sticking plaster.

About as much sense as natural conception between species who evolved on different worlds. Or that they all breathe the same air, and eat the same food.

Shame this series isn't mainstream like all the others and only available for a selected online audience. I have nooo idea what any of you are saying here :brickwall:
From my perspective, this is the most available Trek series ever ;)
 
I have often suspected the Vulcan technique requires a study of the anatomy of the intended target species, without which it probably wouldn't be effective. If you only use it on humans or Vulcans or Romulans, you're good to go, but if you use it on larger animals or many other alien species, you might not know exactly where to apply pressure. You can guess and maybe get lucky, but you might end up wasting your time.

One might also wonder why Gary 7 is immune. Better developed neck muscles? Augmented electro-bio-circuitry for redundant operations or remote access to computer data bases? Superior training to resist the technique? How does that work?
 
I actually thought the scene where Burnham moves Saru to the side and reads the telemetry to the Captain (which the scene shows right on the console monitor) and Saru calls her out saying that basically anyone can read basic info from the screen was brilliant.

How many Spock or Harry Kim reports were literally just this kind of thing?

Good stuff

"Shields at 60% captain!!!"
 
I actually thought the scene where Burnham moves Saru to the side and reads the telemetry to the Captain (which the scene shows right on the console monitor) and Saru calls her out saying that basically anyone can read basic info from the screen was brilliant.
Yeah, I found that moment funny, too. The banter between Saru and Michael is refreshing. But at the same time it's one of these things that let's me doubt she was truly ready for her own command, as Georgiou believed. It just looked like she didn't fully trust her crewmates of seven years, which is kinda weird.
 
Yeah, I found that moment funny, too. The banter between Saru and Michael is refreshing. But at the same time it's one of these things that let's me doubt she was truly ready for her own command, as Georgiou believed. It just looked like she didn't fully trust her crewmates of seven years, which is kinda weird.
She's the captain's pet, which is a very realistic approach for someone on the fast track to command (7 years commissioning to captains chair, seems, if we hadn't had the JJverse we'd be mad at that!). At the beginning of this series, she's kind of a grown up season 1 Wesley - know it all, sure of herself to the point of arrogance, and doesn't truly trust others. But unlike Trek in the past, this comes crashing down around her. I like that.
 
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