Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"

[cooleddie74]

We're all Trek fans, so obviously we're going to be talking about the first new Trek episodes in a decade-plus.

Hell, I'm still talking about the last new Trek episode before Sunday night.

The "TATV..." It burns.

#TripsNotDead #FakeNews

 

[Nerys Myk]

She acts much more like a tactical officer, as the episode progresses. I guess she could be both. But the super characters that are awesome in multiple disciplines are kind of cliched.

Or someone just tossed xenoanthropology in there at the last minute.

Like Spock? I'm surprised Scotty hasn't killed him in his sleep after all the times he stole his thunder.

She has been seen in Science silver is some photos and clips.
And unless it's mentioned in the show it's not canon. (Yep that's still a thing)

 

[Mr Awe]

Cloaking never made much sense in Star Trek. The object still has mass so any kind of sensor beam should bounce off of it.

It might be like stealth technology where the trick is to scatter the scanning beam so it isn't detected. The goal is that the beam doesn't bounce off in such a manner that it returns to the scanning device. You use materials that reduce the amount that bounces off and make it so that what does bounce of doesn't come right back to the scanning device.

 

[Mr Awe]

You might want to check out the articles in the Best of Trek books by Mark Andrew Golding. He made extremely detailed and meticulous lists of every single inconsistency in TOS, and said that IF you take each inconsistency as meaning that the episode took place in a separate universe, that would mean that the entirety of TOS happens in several dozen separate universes.

Wow, your long distorted post is really doing the opposite of making your point!

I don't care what timeline you think Discovery takes place it when it is a known fact that it is the Primetime line. Knock yourself out if that's the way you want to view it. However, your ramblings don't effectively represent a rational point of view, which makes it pointless to discuss with you.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If sensors rely on faster than light echolocation, then somtimes bounceback that the sensors are expecting to render a landscape, may not bounce. The returning signal could be a completely new signal generated by the cloaked ship, after the original scanning beam is muted so it won't bounce and return to sender.

 

[Timewalker]

The second warp 5 ship was therefore canonically captained by a woman. Actual visual evidence of female captains has to trump a comment made by a mad woman bent on taking someone else's life?

Did you miss my mentioning that I haven't seen most of Enterprise, so I have absolutely no idea who the hell you're talking about?

Nobody is 'throwing anything in your face'. They are presenting counterpoints to your assertions. The Saratoga is relevant because it presents a female Captain of a starship in the TOS Movie era and in order to reconcile it with the interpretation that Janice was correct, you must somehow accept that 60s sexism persists in Starfleet for all that time and then just disappears for no reason allowing female captains from then on. It seems infinitely more logical that Janice was just wrong. And that Kirk was a sexist ass, for which there is a whole body of evidence.

In what way could the Saratoga possibly be relevant to this argument? The Saratoga came AFTER "Turnabout Intruder". You're saying Janice lied about a time that she hadn't even experienced yet.

And I'm NOT saying Janice was correct. I'm saying Janice was stark-raving crazy. I'm saying that instead of Kirk making his sexist speech, he should have told her, "You know that's not true, there have been women starship captains."

That doesn't even have to mean Kirk's knowing that 50 years later someone was going to retcon and reboot the series multiple times. It's just something that would have made sense to say, and the writer blew it.

 

[Timo]

Which I don't think ever happened. The writer had no desire to make Lester covet a career in Starfleet, least of all at the center seat of a starship. He made her say as much out loud - Starfleet (or "your space work") didn't interest Lester, unless it involved the chance to be with Kirk.

The exchange is full of sexist assumptions, but Lester hitting a glass ceiling is never implied in the slightest. Instead, we see Lester opening a window and jumping, luckily from the first floor only. And then, years later, donning a disguise and climbing to the top of the Starfleet tower to push Kirk out of a 138th floor window.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyrus]

Review from Variety:
http://variety.com/2017/tv/reviews/...ccess-review-sonequa-martin-green-1202569322/

“Discovery” is trying, with some success, to convey that this is not your father’s “Star Trek.”
It might be your mother’s, if she is a fan of “Star Trek: Deep Space Nine,” which is widely considered to be the best of the “Trek” TV efforts.

 

[Refuge]

That first episode was better than the second.

6. I like to be kind.

 

[cooleddie74]

Did you miss my mentioning that I haven't seen most of Enterprise, so I have absolutely no idea who the hell you're talking about?

The reference is to Captain Erika Hernandez of Columbia NX-02, chronologically speaking from an in-universe perspective the first female starship captain we've ever seen. She was also the first Hispanic female to command a Starfleet vessel.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I really liked the first two episodes overall - but I SO AGREE with the above comment. I've said before I give them an A for effort of this part but a D in execution. That said, from the Producers and Show Writers comments, I think (unfortunately) that won't happen (IE we won't see less of that aspect, it'll be a constant through this season. Remember the scripts are finished and as I type this they are finishing principal photography on episode 15 (the final one for the season) and the majority of the episodes are finished an through post production and editing.

So, I think that if the audience reacts to all this like we are - the best we can hope for is that if they get a second season, and it still involves Klingons or another alien race in a major way; that they learn from this, and do the whole 'alien language' aspect in a different 'more traditional' Star Trek way in any future Seasons.

We'll see.

I absolutely do not want to see a 'more traditional' way to do alien languages. The problem with these scenes is not that they're speaking Klingon, it's that they're speaking five words a minute. Design the language and the prosthetics in such a way that they can speak at a normal tempo with some actual inflection, and the problem is solved.

 

[Timo]

...Then again, religious nutcases going all zombie in the middle of corpses must be entertaining in its own right. The Walking Dead weren't automatically inferior to the Parkouring Dead of World War Z, now were they?

That said, it would be cool for TPTB to "fix the problem", thereby creating great contrast between most Klingons and this chanting bunch of weirdos from the pilots.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Guy Gardener]

The reference is to Captain Erika Hernandez of Columbia NX-02, chronologically speaking from an in-universe perspective the first female starship captain we've ever seen. She was also the first Hispanic female to command a Starfleet vessel.

I find it silly to think that Hernandez botched her command so badly, in a way that a male couldn't, that she is why it is 200 years until Starfleet takes another chance on a female captain.

 

[cultcross]

What constitutes a reboot and what does not isn't a matter of opinion.



"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle".



If he didn't start laughing at you, he should have.

Constant reminders and warnings don't seem to be getting through to you - do not attack other posters. For the second time you have earned an infraction for trolling. Comments to PM.

 

[Zeppster]

I find myself after one episode rooting against the main character. Is this a good thing? And none of this makes sense. All of the starfleet characters are morons. Visuals looks pretty. But somewhat dark. But it's not real Star Trek. Well it is a bit like the worst Voyager episodes. Except the lack of any real likeable characters.

 

[BillJ]

It might be like stealth technology where the trick is to scatter the scanning beam so it isn't detected. The goal is that the beam doesn't bounce off in such a manner that it returns to the scanning device. You use materials that reduce the amount that bounces off and make it so that what does bounce of doesn't come right back to the scanning device.

If the beams scattered, shouldn't that lead to a dead spot wherever the scattering is happening? Because it isn't making it to that area.

 

[starsuperion]

Review from Variety:
http://variety.com/2017/tv/reviews/...ccess-review-sonequa-martin-green-1202569322/

“Discovery” is trying, with some success, to convey that this is not your father’s “Star Trek.”
It might be your mother’s, if she is a fan of “Star Trek: Deep Space Nine,” which is widely considered to be the best of the “Trek” TV efforts.

In what reality is DS9 "widely" considered the best of the "trek" tv efforts??? Seriously?!!!

 

[Zeppster]

In what reality is DS9 "widely" considered the best of the "trek" tv efforts??? Seriously?!!!

I like DS9 and it probably is my 2nd favorite after TOS. But it wasn't even watched during it's original run.

 

[Mr Awe]

If the beams scattered, shouldn't that lead to a dead spot wherever the scattering is happening? Because it isn't making it to that area.

It would just like empty space. At least going by the stealth analogy.

 

[Ometiklan]

All of these attempted-"gotcha" posts are getting really tedious. I have no idea who Erika Hernandez is. I assume that's a character from the Enterprise series? I haven't seen more than a handful of that series, and I can barely even name the series regulars, let alone be able to identify all of them by looking at a cast photo.

My personal view of Enterprise is that it's not really a prequel to TOS. There are enough elements of TNG in it that it seemed more like a prequel to that show, instead of TOS, and pretty much ignored TOS...

As for throwing Georgiou in my face... as I've said, I'm of the view that this is a reboot, not a prequel. Or at the very least, it's a sequel to Enterprise, which I don't regard as a prequel to TOS.

I don't know how you can try to argue that there were no female captain's allowed in Starfleet if you haven't watched Enterprise. Outside of the 79 TOS episodes and "The Cage" it is the only canon part of Star Trek that would provide direct evidence of the incorrectness of your position prior to "Turnabout Intruder" (which even now I don't really understand if you believe it, or if you think that it is true because Lester said so). Having not seen Enterprise I would say that you can't make a valid argument. But if you insist (without having seen it) that Enterprise is a TNG sequel, but a different timeline than a TOS prequel (which some people argue is because of the Borg incursion in the past changing the timeline, a totally reasonable argument, that i don't happen to agree with), you would have to ignore all the connective elements of Enterprise. I would point you to the fourth season of Enterprise, which I find to be the only truly good season. Yes, they have elements that connect to TNG, but they also make direct connections to things we only see in TOS including the actual USS Defiant from TOS (from "The Tholian Web") and the Tholians, the Andorians and Tellerites, and the Gorn (from "Arena"). Manny Coto and the staff of Enterprise actually started making ENT a true prequel in the fourth season rather than just paying lip service to the idea. So I would say if you watched season 4, you should conclude ENT is a TOS prequel, and yes, Hernandez is a captain of the second "NX class" ship.

As for Georgiou, I concede that since your premise is that Discovery is a reboot, then Georgiou can't logically be used as evidence of non-reboot status. My mistake.

We have to conclude that Lester in a nut job. We saw a woman XO, someone who may have to captain the ship for weeks, months or years depending on the circumstance, if something happens to the captain.

Provided one considers "The Cage" to be canon, "Number One" is direct proof that women are allowed as captains. As BillJ says, there is no way that Starfleet would allow someone to be first officer who would not be allowed to captain. And "Number One" is captain for the entire time that Pike is captured on Talos IV.

Additionally, the Captain of the Saratoga is relevant, if not direct proof. She appears to be human, so barring some unusual circumstances (like being raised on Vulcan, for instance, and recently getting a high officer rank in Starfleet based on equivalent service in the Vulcan High Command), she would have to progress upward through Starfleet to attain the rank of captain. That means she didn't just walk straight out of civilian life to a captaincy, therefore (unless she was made Captain on her second day out of the academy (cough) nuKirk (cough)) she has been in the service for more than 10 years, and probably closer to 15 or 20, putting her time of service in the realm of TOS. So, similarly to "Number One" she would have had the same duty of assuming command under similar circumstances to "The Cage". So, like I said, not direct proof, but reasonable conclusions based on evidence presented.