Future of Paramount includes Star Trek tentpole

[ISS Enterprise]

STID ranked 12/13 by collider.com and 11/13 by syfy

Again this is all subjective, but IMO wasn't their 'The Dark Knight ' sequel bust out they weee shooting for. I enjoyed tge movie and iwn bluray n digital versions. Have watched many times as a,Treknhunkie and TOS 5 tear mission being my personal favorite, just not very trek IMO. JJ really doesn't get it, again IMO

The Irxh beyond numbers I read online and the multiplier math us above my nerd pay grade lol

STB suffered from rushed script 6 months to write, had to get out for 50th anniversary, craptastic marketing, etc.

Again it felt smaller in scale, BUT Lin said they were going for that as an expanded episode of TOS. Characters moved closer to prime counterparts again IMO

 

[BillJ]

STID ranked 12/13 by collider.com and 11/13 by syfy

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_into_darkness/

Average critic rating - 7.5/10 based on 266 critic reviews from across the internet.

Average audience rating - 4.2/5 based on 311,733 user ratings.

Star Trek Beyond - 6.9/3.9
Star Trek - 8.2/4.1
Star Trek: Nemesis - 5.2/3.1
Star Trek: Insurrection - 5.8/3.1
Star Trek: First Contact - 7.4/3.6
Star Trek: Generations - 5.5/3.3
The Undiscovered Country - 6.8/3.5
The Final Frontier - 3.9/2.8
The Voyage Home - 6.9/3.5
The Search for Spock - 6.5/3.3
The Wrath of Khan - 8.0/3.8
The Motion Picture - 5.7/3.1

First number is the average critic review, the second is the average fan review.

 

[ISS Enterprise]

Not going to argue with you. It's subjective. TWOK ranked below Generations and TMP by general audiences enough said

STID was not the spring board JJ n crew were hoping for. Based on box office and reviews at release

Again I own, enjoy, viewed scarring the hell out of 100 times. I enjoy a lot of great scenes,, Kirk Uhura in turbo lift, very TOS feel, then busting Spock about his ears ringing

Kirk deciding to take landing party vs firing torpedoes with Spock stating he'd be happy to accompany him n Kirk's response, etc.

It just didn't do it for me overall

 

[BillJ]

STID was not the spring board JJ n crew were hoping for. Based on box office and reviews at release

It is the highest grossing Star Trek movie, ever.

It boggles the mind that you easily dismiss thousands of opinions and hundreds of critics scores for op-ed pieces from Collider and SyFy. Even here, 70% rate Into Darkness as a 'B-' or better.

What exact bar are you setting for it to be considered a success?

Paramount fumbled the ball badly when it listened to a very small, very loud contingent of internet fans vs. going with what had already been wildly successful by Star Trek standards. General audiences didn't want an expanded episode of TOS, they wanted a movie that built on the stories that had been told in the first two films.

 

[PixelMagic]

Paramount fumbled the ball badly when it listened to a very small, very loud contingent of internet fans vs. going with what had already been wildly successful by Star Trek standards. General audiences didn't want an expanded episode of TOS, they wanted a movie that built on the stories that had been told in the first two films.

I loved Beyond, but am forced to agree. But only because the general populace are morons.

 

[Malaika]

some trek fans don't want to hear this, but the truth is a lot of people don't like tos so they would never be interested about an extended tos episode; even a lot of the fans of the other trek series are 'meh' about tos and find it too outdated and campy, or dislike it for other reasons and just personal taste and a preference for different things - and we like it or not, JJ&co were asked to create a trek that even people who don't give a damn about tos could like (attention: this doesn't mean a worse quality product, just different!) and it worked.
Now, it's a mistake, and frankly hopeless, for anyone in the creative team and the fandom to believe that, somehow, the people who don't like tos (but like the reboot movies) can magically like it now because they are 'tricked' by some sort of illusion of the reboot being different by the first movies. A kid who is repulsed by spinach won't suddenly love it just because you hid it in a more palatable dish before and they ate it. If next time you give them only spinach, they won't eat it.

that not even taking into account the fact that, again, a lot of reboot fans ARE tos fans too (see me) who like the reboot precisely because it's different. From my perspective, reducing this trek to a tos fanfiction is not only a waste but something I'm not interested about because if I want to watch tos, I just watch tos. I don't even need to make the effort with any reboot, in that case.

 

[BillJ]

I loved Beyond, but am forced to agree. But only because the general populace are morons.

I liked Beyond. But nothing about it really stuck with me, or fired my imagination. I walked out of the first two movies wondering where they would go next. I walked out of Beyond and thought "that's nice".

 

[ISS Enterprise]

I'm not dismissing anything. I own and viewed movie multiple dozens of times

I've stated it's my opinion and it was regarded as somewhat of a disappointment at time by box office take vs their expectations not mine and general audiences liked it, but didnt love it

JJ n crew set the bar not me at 1 billion box office on par with avengers etc. It didn't get there obviously

What stories from first two movies? ST09 was great set up new universe and possible events, BUT STID forces Khan in mix going with old versus the mind blowing new of destroying Vulcan

4 years between flicks killed all mojo of 09 then rehashed.
Beyond isn't what I wanted and is flawed, 6 months to write a script after Orci canned by studio for poor script set it up to fail period. I enjoyed the characters moving towards their prime counterparts but could've seen that in a better movie

 

[BillJ]

4 years between flicks killed all mojo of 09 then rehashed.

This is just contradictory to the evidence on hand. "A" being that Into Darkness made the most theatrical dollars of any Star Trek movie ever. "B" being that it is well liked by a lot of people and critics alike. "C" beyond reusing a character and a two-minute scene, what exactly about Into Darkness was a rehash? The story itself plays very differently than either "Space Seed" or The Wrath of Khan.

I can imagine Into Darkness not being someone's cup of tea. But I think we need to quit rewriting history to make it fit our personal opinions.

 

[ISS Enterprise]

I'm not rewritting anything to fit my agenda. It was highest grossing yes, but they were aiming for 1 billion, their goal but not close. Again audiences liked it, but didnt love it at that time

It was a different twist on Space Seed and parts of TWOK mashed together IMO. Watch STID om FX channel. Damon Lindelof says the line of movie is " my name is Khan". It fell flat as Kirk n crew had no history with Khan do Kirk and Spock were like ok um..... Hi....

I liked it, it's fun to watch but not what I expected after 09. 09 set up anything can happen then JJ pushes Khan into it versus creating something new, new stakes, etc.

 

[JamesRye]

Not going to argue with you. It's subjective. TWOK ranked below Generations and TMP by general audiences enough said

Incorrect.

The first value is market out of 10 by critics. The second number is out of 5 by the audience. As you can see at 3.8, TWOK is ranked above Generations and TMP and not below.

The Motion Picture - 5.7/3.1
Star Trek: Generations - 5.5/3.3
The Wrath of Khan - 8.0/3.8

At 4.2/5, we can see that STID is actually the highest rated film in the franchise by the audience, which is very interesting and surprising - considering the vitriolic comments that some fans had regarding this installment. We can also see that TWOK is just beaten by ST09 to be the highest rated film in the franchise by the critics.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think it's fair to say Into Darkness was liked by moviegoers but hated by many die-hard Trekkies.

I think it's also true that the former group is infinitely larger than the latter, but the latter far more vocal and passionate about their displeasure than the casual viewers who didn't much care beyond their 135 minutes of entertainment and quick online rating afterwards.

 

[JamesRye]

I think it's fair to say Into Darkness was liked by moviegoers but hated by many die-hard Trekkies.

This is my feeling as well, though it's hard to back it up with actual hard data. I did a search on the TrekBBS and found a poll titled "Star Trek (2009) vs. Into Darkness" where 57% preferred STID, 26.4% said they were equally good and only 16.1% thought it worse. The trouble with such polls is that the sample size is too small - a mere 87 votes. It is unlikely that we can extrapolate much from this data.

That's why BillJ's post is so good, where he points out that for STID:

Average critic rating - 7.5/10 based on 266 critic reviews from across the internet.

Average audience rating - 4.2/5 based on 311,733 user ratings.

 

[Khan 2.0]

It is the highest grossing Star Trek movie, ever.

It boggles the mind that you easily dismiss thousands of opinions and hundreds of critics scores for op-ed pieces from Collider and SyFy. Even here, 70% rate Into Darkness as a 'B-' or better.

What exact bar are you setting for it to be considered a success?

Paramount fumbled the ball badly when it listened to a very small, very loud contingent of internet fans vs. going with what had already been wildly successful by Star Trek standards. General audiences didn't want an expanded episode of TOS, they wanted a movie that built on the stories that had been told in the first two films.

*ahem* like this? (now updated with ST6)
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-5-2022.286283/

 

[donners22]

It was a different twist on Space Seed and parts of TWOK mashed together IMO.

The central aspects of ID are a conspiracy to start a war and Kirk finding his way as captain, learning to trust his crew and the consequences of failure, with parallels to modern issues of drone strikes, summary justice for terrorists and preemptive wars. It is through his personal growth that Kirk manages to thwart the conspiracy.

None of those were aspects of Space Seed or WoK. Khan is a decoy villain, and those who dismiss ID as a remake, ripoff, rehash etc are not looking at it very carefully.

As for general reception, it is clearly rated as one of the best Trek films on Metacritic (users and critics), Rotten Tomatoes (users and critics) and Cinemascore, not to mention box office.

 

[pst]

The central aspects of ID are a conspiracy to start a war and Kirk finding his way as captain, learning to trust his crew and the consequences of failure, with parallels to modern issues of drone strikes, summary justice for terrorists and preemptive wars. It is through his personal growth that Kirk manages to thwart the conspiracy.

None of those were aspects of Space Seed or WoK. Khan is a decoy villain, and those who dismiss ID as a remake, ripoff, rehash etc are not looking at it very carefully.

As for general reception, it is clearly rated as one of the best Trek films on Metacritic (users and critics), Rotten Tomatoes (users and critics) and Cinemascore, not to mention box office.

all of this. you articulated most of my thoughts about this movie better than i could have myself, thank you.

still not my favorite installment in the trilogy, but i appreciate the utility into darkness plays in depicting said growth we see in kirk. he'd still be "douchebag kirk" in star trek beyond without it.

 

[fireproof78]

The central aspects of ID are a conspiracy to start a war and Kirk finding his way as captain, learning to trust his crew and the consequences of failure, with parallels to modern issues of drone strikes, summary justice for terrorists and preemptive wars. It is through his personal growth that Kirk manages to thwart the conspiracy.

None of those were aspects of Space Seed or WoK. Khan is a decoy villain, and those who dismiss ID as a remake, ripoff, rehash etc are not looking at it very carefully.

As for general reception, it is clearly rated as one of the best Trek films on Metacritic (users and critics), Rotten Tomatoes (users and critics) and Cinemascore, not to mention box office.

Exactly. It is a major growing point for Kirk, and shows his maturing process. I found Marcus' to be an interesting villain, and menacing in a way that shows a darker mirror that Kirk could become.

I really find this film to be underappreciated and agree that the "ripoff of TWOK" is superficial, at best.

 

[Malaika]

Benedict should've played John Harrison or Robert April. His character could've had a connection to Khan without necessarily being him.

I'd also change Kirk's death scene a bit, the dialog was fine but I'd avoid the scream and over the top reaction from Spock. I'd make Mccoy the desperate one who cries (would make more sense for Scotty to call the ships' doctor anyway) because he can do nothing to save his friend. I'd also include Uhura (and maybe the rest of the crew too since the main theme of the movie is family) in the end when Kirk wakes up since she had been equally sad about his death and had risked her life to give him a chance.

In both cases, this is an example of how your narrative gets limited when you are too stuck about making something about X character or dynamic (in this case kirk/spock) only, in spite of it making more sense with others. The writers kind of paint themselves into a corner with that stuff and more often than not, waste opportunities for real character development and more layered, well rounded writing and characters.
That's why series that are more about an ensemble are the best. If you aren't stuck with wanting to give most of the screentime to the same few, you are truly allowed to develop characters and dynamics, including the main ones, in a more creative, organic and realistic way.

 

[PixelMagic]

Welp, Paramount screwing up again. Man. I've not seen a movie studio with this streak of bombs before. Their financials have to be in the toilet.

http://screencrush.com/paramount-statement-about-mother-aronofsky/

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Paramount makes Sony look like fragging Disney in comparison. I wouldn't be surprised if even Lionsgate ends up surpassing Paramount in the 2017 studio box office.