Voyager season 3

[Lynx]

So, Worst Case Scenario ... not sure what the impetus for this ep was; I thought it was kind of a weird ep actually. Firstly, I figured straight away that Torres was in a holo-something, even before the credits ran, then it seemed like it was wavering between a more light-hearted piece and something more sinister. Or maybe the whole "scenario" was just a mechanism to bring the character of Seska back? I have mixed feelings about this ep. Not sure whether I like it or not, partly because it seemed not to have any bearing on anything. Or maybe I missed something.

At any rate, Chakotay in his Maquis garb is SEXY , kissing Seska is not sexy.
...and this might be a good time to ask my frivolous -Chakotay question: what's the deal with the changing hair style? He was on glorious display in this ep sporting both styles, one seems to be his Maquis look and the other his Starfleet look. As soon as he appeared as the holo-Maquis he was back to his old do, unless that was archive footage they recycled from season 1. Stupid question really, but anyone know if there was a reason for this? If not it seems like a completely random decision by the series' hairstylist. And he or she should have left him with his Maquis cut; it's way better looking!


Ok, I only have Scorpion left for this season and I'll prob rewatch that tonight or tomorrow . I'll wait to post my season 4 thread until I get a few eps in, but I'd love to keep the s3 discussion going here...

How would you guys rank the first 3 seasons?

For me, the first three seasons ARE Voyager and as such the best SF series ever!
I love the characters and most of the episodes, not to mention the wonderful Voyager books from that era.
Which makes me think of The Best Season 3 Episode That Never Was, which is the book "The Black Shore" by Greg Cox. It's so good that it should have been filmed as a two-part episode. If it had, then it would have been my favorite Star Trek episode.

I must admit that I was never that fond of Voyager's sequel Star Trek-Seven Of Nine but more of that later on.

As for "Worst Case Scenario", that was a good episode. Great to see Seska back as villain even if she's only a hologram here. Theidea with that Maquis mutiny is great and I remember being fooled the first time I watched the episode. I thought "What is wrong with Chakotay? Why is he staring a mutiny?"

But there's one thing that I don't understand. So far I haven't seen any reviews or discussion about the excellent episode "Darkling". Have I missed something or has it simply been forgotten?

 

[Sophie74656]

How would you guys rank the first 3 seasons?

The first three seasons are ok but in my opinion the weakest of the show. There are some changes that happen at the end of season 3 that I feel make the show much better. From that point on the story lines are much better

 

[cosmic mouse]

For me, the first three seasons ARE Voyager and as such the best SF series ever!
I love the characters and most of the episodes, not to mention the wonderful Voyager books from that era.
Which makes me think of The Best Season 3 Episode That Never Was, which is the book "The Black Shore" by Greg Cox. It's so good that it should have been filmed as a two-part episode. If it had, then it would have been my favorite Star Trek episode.

Thanks for the book info/rec... maybe I'll check that one out sometime, although I am even more behind in my book-reading than I am with my movie-watching, so it'll likely be awhile.

As for "Worst Case Scenario", that was a good episode. Great to see Seska back as villain even if she's only a hologram here. Theidea with that Maquis mutiny is great and I remember being fooled the first time I watched the episode. I thought "What is wrong with Chakotay? Why is he staring a mutiny?"

Chakotay's demeanor is actually what tipped me off right away that it had to be a simulation of some kind (or my other thought before the ep progressed was that he was under the influence of an alien species). At this point in the series I figure there was no way he'd act like that in "reality"...

But there's one thing that I don't understand. So far I haven't seen any reviews or discussion about the excellent episode "Darkling". Have I missed something or has it simply been forgotten?

There are a number of eps that I didn't mention specifically, mainly for the sake of brevity. This posting business I love, but it takes time and I usually have to multi-task to do it properly (I'm on my lunch break right now, for example, and my 4-hour round trip commute gives me time as well).
Real Life, Darkling, The Swarm, Fair Trade, and some others I bypassed for a few reasons. Darkling, specifically, I didn't mention simply because I didn't really have a strong opinion on it. I liked some about it, but not other things... such as some of the Doctor material. And I'll talk about the Dr character when I get deeper into season 4 since I know he plays a more prominent (different?) role in some of the later eps.
Feel free to expound though, Lynx... or throw any comments/opinions out there even if I don't ask for them or otherwise initiate the conversation.

The first three seasons are ok but in my opinion the weakest of the show. There are some changes that happen at the end of season 3 that I feel make the show much better. From that point on the story lines are much better

I'm excited for the latter half of the series partly because I've seen you post this a couple of times now. I can understand why those seasons have a polarizing effect for some, but I look forward to them anyway.

I personally thought season 1 was vastly inferior to 2 and 3, but that's probably because the show wasn't yet in full swing... I felt the same way when I watched the X-Files ages ago. Overall, I think season 2 might be the best so far. There were more episodes in season 3 that I liked a LOT or loved, but also a handful more (vs. s2) that I didn't care for... so I consider 2 and 3 tied for the time being.

 

[cosmic mouse]

I've always been a fan of Seska so I enjoyed Worst Case Scenario. I love the look on Harry's face at the end when he's like I got transporters back and Janeway is like nah we don't need it anymore

Oh, and fair enough on Seska... that actress was perfectly cast and the writing decent for the character because, as a villain, I want to smash her in the grill almost every time she's onscreen.

 

[Sophie74656]

Oh, and fair enough on Seska... that actress was perfectly cast and the writing decent for the character because, as a villain, I want to smash her in the grill almost every time she's onscreen.

That's what a villian is supposed to make you feel!

 

[Sophie74656]

I personally thought season 1 was vastly inferior to 2 and 3, but that's probably because the show wasn't yet in full swing... I felt the same way when I watched the X-Files ages ago. Overall, I think season 2 might be the best so far. There were more episodes in season 3 that I liked a LOT or loved, but also a handful more (vs. s2) that I didn't care for... so I consider 2 and 3 tied for the time being.

I definately agree with this. I honestly feel this way for a lot of shows I like. I usually prefer the later seasons of most shows once they are more established and the writng improves as both the writers and actors get to know their characters better. I think Voyager improved with each season with season 1 being the weakest. But every season has some great episodes. Of course it's all opinion....there is a poster who will argue that the last 4 seasons are not "real" Voyager even though that poster refuses to actually watch those episodes.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

How would you guys rank the first 3 seasons?

I like anything VOY from CARETAKER to ENDGAME. I think the first three seasons are just as good as the last four.

However, I think there's a change in the tone of the show - in my book there are two VOY series. The first three seasons with Kes and a bigger emphasis on getting home; and the second four with Seven and an emphasis on her personal development. Both parts are just as much enjoyable.

My top 4 or 5 favourite episodes all come from the Kes era. But if you asked me which season I thought was the best, I'd say Season 4. Apparently, if there's something I like about the first half, then it is counterbalanced by something I like better about the second half.

And what follows from this? That VOY totally rocks! Long live Janeway and her crew!

 

[Sophie74656]

I like anything VOY from CARETAKER to ENDGAME. I think the first three seasons are just as good as the last four.

However, I think there's a change in the tone of the show - in my book there are two VOY series. The first three seasons with Kes and a bigger emphasis on getting home; and the second four with Seven and an emphasis on her personal development. Both parts are just as much enjoyable.

My top 4 or 5 favourite episodes all come from the Kes era. But if you asked me which season I thought was the best, I'd say Season 4. Apparently, if there's something I like about the first half, then it is counterbalanced by something I like better about the second half.

And what follows from this? That VOY totally rocks! Long live Janeway and her crew!

There is certainly a change in tone. I know there was a change in staff behind the scenes and that may have had something to do with it. Also I think at that point for the characters there was a realization that they weren't getting home any time soon so there was a shift in them as well.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

There is certainly a change in tone. I know there was a change in staff behind the scenes and that may have had something to do with it. Also I think at that point for the characters there was a realization that they weren't getting home any time soon so there was a shift in them as well.

Who got changed?

 

[Prax]

So, Worst Case Scenario ... not sure what the impetus for this ep was; I thought it was kind of a weird ep actually. Firstly, I figured straight away that Torres was in a holo-something, even before the credits ran, then it seemed like it was wavering between a more light-hearted piece and something more sinister. Or maybe the whole "scenario" was just a mechanism to bring the character of Seska back? I have mixed feelings about this ep. Not sure whether I like it or not, partly because it seemed not to have any bearing on anything. Or maybe I missed something.

At any rate, Chakotay in his Maquis garb is SEXY , kissing Seska is not sexy.
...and this might be a good time to ask my frivolous -Chakotay question: what's the deal with the changing hair style? He was on glorious display in this ep sporting both styles, one seems to be his Maquis look and the other his Starfleet look. As soon as he appeared as the holo-Maquis he was back to his old do, unless that was archive footage they recycled from season 1. Stupid question really, but anyone know if there was a reason for this? If not it seems like a completely random decision by the series' hairstylist. And he or she should have left him with his Maquis cut; it's way better looking!


Ok, I only have Scorpion left for this season and I'll prob rewatch that tonight or tomorrow . I'll wait to post my season 4 thread until I get a few eps in, but I'd love to keep the s3 discussion going here...

How would you guys rank the first 3 seasons?

I love that episode. I believe the origin for the story was a combination of a few story ideas. One was to have an actual Maquis mutiny after the death of 1 or more Maquis on an away mission, and there was a separate story idea to have an episode where Seska returns from grave because she planted some hologram in Chakotays quarters to terrorize him or something. These seem to have been combined and made into something better.

As for the first 3 seasons, I think they're great. I was never as big into the serialized stories in season 1 & 2 with the Kazon(although I like the Kazon and Seska), but there are many great individual stories too. I like how the ship moves to a new region of space every few seasons with a new variety of aliens and a different tone. You get to sort of grow with the show. What's past is past. What's now is now(if that makes any sense). There are almost eras. When they talk about people, places, or incidents from earlier seasons, it feels like references to a closed chapter. There's something nostalgic about it.

It is not so in TNG. The tone changes but the same players show up as the Enterprise travels to and fro and yonder across the Federation.

 

[Sophie74656]

Who got changed?

Some executive producers changed. Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor both left and Brannon Braga and Kenneth Biller became executive producers...though Michael piller left a little earlier than that.

 

[Prax]

Looking Forward to season 4, it seems that most fans hail this season as the strongest. It is definitely packed to the brim with well executed creativity. The season contains 3 two parters not including Scorpion.

The actors perform at their best. I think Mulgrew is a bit weaker in this season. To me, her performances are incredible right from Caretaker. She quit smoking just before season 4, she says she put on weight(I couldn't tell, but that may be why they changed her hair style so dramatically early in the season), and I think she was feeling really insecure in her job at the time. She says in an interview that summer that she was feeling anxious constantly.

It probably took the writers a little bit to figure out the dynamics between their lead captain and the new main character. One of my favorite Janeway(and just Janeway) episodes of season 4 is "Concerning Flight."

One thing I think this season deserves praise for is how well they balanced the attention of each character. There are many good ensemble stories, and also everyone gets a few "character focus" episodes. And this in spite of the fact that they had to introduce a new main cast member.

Well almost everyone. Harry Kim doesn't get as much, but he gets a lot more screen time in the ensemble ones. Chakotay, B'elanna, the Doctor, and the new character each get 3-4 episodes focused just on them.

I don't know what else I could say. Making a ranking or "favorites" list would not be possible.

 

[Sophie74656]

Looking Forward to season 4, it seems that most fans hail this season as the strongest. It is definitely packed to the brim with well executed creativity. The season contains 3 two parters not including Scorpion.

The actors perform at their best. I think Mulgrew is a bit weaker in this season. To me, her performances are incredible right from Caretaker. She quit smoking just before season 4, she says she put on weight(I couldn't tell, but that may be why they changed her hair style so dramatically early in the season), and I think she was feeling really insecure in her job at the time.

It probably took the writers a little bit to figure out the dynamics between their lead captain and the new main character. One of my favorite Janeway(and just Janeway) episodes of season 4 is "Concerning Flight."

One thing I think this season deserves praise for is how well they balanced the attention of each character. There are many good ensemble stories, and also everyone gets a few "character focus" episodes. And this in spite of the fact that they had to introduce a new main cast member.

Well almost everyone. Harry Kim doesn't get as much, but he gets a lot more screen time in the ensemble ones. Chakotay, B'elanna, the Doctor, and the new character each get 3-4 episodes focused just on them.

I don't know what else I could say. Making a ranking or "favorites" list would not be possible.

One of the criticims Voyager often gets is how much focus Seven got. But if you actually look at each episode and what characters are focused on, for the most part is is fairly balanced. Just about everyone gets several episodes where they are the lead or have a large focus. Even though understandibly since this wa Seven's first season she needed to be established.

 

[cosmic mouse]

I love that episode. I believe the origin for the story was a combination of a few story ideas. One was to have an actual Maquis mutiny after the death of 1 or more Maquis on an away mission, and there was a separate story idea to have an episode where Seska returns from grave because she planted some hologram in Chakotays quarters to terrorize him or something. These seem to have been combined and made into something better.

Interesting... thanks for the info. I have to say the resulting episode seems like it was much better than the prorposed stories that didn't make the cut. Although seeing Chak get terrorized in his quarters by a surly female has a strangely compelling allure for me.

As for the first 3 seasons, I think they're great. I was never as big into the serialized stories in season 1 & 2 with the Kazon(although I like the Kazon and Seska), but there are many great individual stories too. I like how the ship moves to a new region of space every few seasons with a new variety of aliens and a different tone. You get to sort of grow with the show. What's past is past. What's now is now(if that makes any sense). There are almost eras. When they talk about people, places, or incidents from earlier seasons, it feels like references to a closed chapter. There's something nostalgic about it.

It is not so in TNG. The tone changes but the same players show up as the Enterprise travels to and fro and yonder across the Federation.

That does make perfect sense (regarding eras and time frames within VOY). Also, on the note of TNG: I watched the first season of that series when I was in high school as it originally aired.... and promptly quit. Part of that was because I went away to college, but what I have seen of VOY and TOS blow it out of the water. Maybe TNG got better in later seasons, but I never went back to find out...

Looking Forward to season 4, it seems that most fans hail this season as the strongest. It is definitely packed to the brim with well executed creativity. The season contains 3 two parters not including Scorpion.

The actors perform at their best. I think Mulgrew is a bit weaker in this season. To me, her performances are incredible right from Caretaker. She quit smoking just before season 4, she says she put on weight(I couldn't tell, but that may be why they changed her hair style so dramatically early in the season), and I think she was feeling really insecure in her job at the time. She says in an interview that summer that she was feeling anxious constantly.

It probably took the writers a little bit to figure out the dynamics between their lead captain and the new main character. One of my favorite Janeway(and just Janeway) episodes of season 4 is "Concerning Flight."

One thing I think this season deserves praise for is how well they balanced the attention of each character. There are many good ensemble stories, and also everyone gets a few "character focus" episodes. And this in spite of the fact that they had to introduce a new main cast member.

Well almost everyone. Harry Kim doesn't get as much, but he gets a lot more screen time in the ensemble ones. Chakotay, B'elanna, the Doctor, and the new character each get 3-4 episodes focused just on them.

I don't know what else I could say. Making a ranking or "favorites" list would not be possible.

Oh man, I can't wait for season 4 now that you guys are hyping it up! I'm going out with friends tonight, but I don;t have to work tomorrow so hopefully I can start it then.
And more interesting data on Mulgrew/Janeway... she is one of the strongest characters so far, so if she gets weaker I'll be sad, but knowing the supposed strife between her and Jeri Ryan (I have read about this here in a few places) I'm sure that had an effect on both of them, so maybe a reason for the anxiety. I've also had friends who quit smoking (or attempted to) and I can't hold aggravation/anxiety/etc against anyone in that position... I'm grateful that I've never smoked cigarettes (mary jane is another story).

 

[Sophie74656]

Interesting... thanks for the info. I have to say the resulting episode seems like it was much better than the prorposed stories that didn't make the cut. Although seeing Chak get terrorized in his quarters by a surly female has a strangely compelling allure for me.



That does make perfect sense (regarding eras and time frames within VOY). Also, on the note of TNG: I watched the first season of that series when I was in high school as it originally aired.... and promptly quit. Part of that was because I went away to college, but what I have seen of VOY and TOS blow it out of the water. Maybe TNG got better in later seasons, but I never went back to find out...



Oh man, I can't wait for season 4 now that you guys are hyping it up! I'm going out with friends tonight, but I don;t have to work tomorrow so hopefully I can start it then.
And more interesting data on Mulgrew/Janeway... she is one of the strongest characters so far, so if she gets weaker I'll be sad, but knowing the supposed strife between her and Jeri Ryan (I have read about this here in a few places) I'm sure that had an effect on both of them, so maybe a reason for the anxiety. I've also had friends who quit smoking (or attempted to) and I can't hold aggravation/anxiety/etc against anyone in that position... I'm grateful that I've never smoked cigarettes (mary jane is another story).

From what I've read, Kate Mulgrew had some resentment when Jeri Ryan came along. I can kind of understand it. She was not happy that a "hot young blonde" had to be brought in. They were never best friends on set. Frankly, I don't love all of my coworkers either. But as you will see, their personal feelings behind the scenes had no impact on their characters.

 

[Refuge]

I like anything VOY from CARETAKER to ENDGAME. I think the first three seasons are just as good as the last four.

However, I think there's a change in the tone of the show - in my book there are two VOY series. The first three seasons with Kes and a bigger emphasis on getting home; and the second four with Seven and an emphasis on her personal development. Both parts are just as much enjoyable.

My top 4 or 5 favourite episodes all come from the Kes era. But if you asked me which season I thought was the best, I'd say Season 4. Apparently, if there's something I like about the first half, then it is counterbalanced by something I like better about the second half.

And what follows from this? That VOY totally rocks! Long live Janeway and her crew!

I agree and there does seem to be a tendency to divide the show into Kes years and Seven of Nine years but given I like both characters, probably Kes slightly more, I can enjoy the whole lot. Those first few seasons gave us foundation and character development as well as some pretty iconic Voyager episodes. Caretaker, Deadlock, Tuvix, Death Wish, The Thaw, Future's End, Basics.. even Threshold. Scorpion (I) so many others.

It's all good

 

[cosmic mouse]

Scorpion rocked... it was a re-watch for me, but I still love it. It's the best season finale yet, and the 2nd part is just as good, if not better, than the 1st. Also, per the Doctor, three months have elapsed since the events in Unity took place (that's something I didn't pick up on before when I saw this ep, likely because I hadn't yet seen any of the eps that preceded it).

Thusly, my favorite season 3 eps are (loosely ranked):

Distant Origin
Scorpion
Future's End 1 & 2
Basics pt II
Before & After
Blood Fever
Flashback
Unity
Worst Case Scenario (re-watched this one since I posted last and liked it better the second time)
Remember

 

[Sophie74656]

Scorpion rocked... it was a re-watch for me, but I still love it. It's the best season finale yet, and the 2nd part is just as good, if not better, than the 1st. Also, per the Doctor, three months have elapsed since the events in Unity took place (that's something I didn't pick up on before when I saw this ep, likely because I hadn't yet seen any of the eps that preceded it).

Thusly, my favorite season 3 eps are (loosely ranked):

Distant Origin
Scorpion
Future's End 1 & 2
Basics pt II
Before & After
Blood Fever
Flashback
Unity
Worst Case Scenario (re-watched this one since I posted last and liked it better the second time)
Remember

Those are all very good epiodes. Personally I would change the order a bit, but it's fun to see you enjoying them

 

[cosmic mouse]

Those are all very good epiodes. Personally I would change the order a bit, but it's fun to see you enjoying them

Honestly, if you asked me in a couple of months, I might also rank them in a slightly different order. My rankings/ratings (for film anyway) tend to be a little fluid over time, which I can only ascribe to the general state of the cosmos being in flux and not a static environment.

 

[Sophie74656]

Honestly, if you asked me in a couple of months, I might also rank them in a slightly different order. My rankings/ratings (for film anyway) tend to be a little fluid over time, which I can only ascribe to the general state of the cosmos being in flux and not a static environment.

My rankings can change depending on how much I've discussed things. There have been a few times where after a long discussion about an episode I end up thinking about it in a different way and liking it more/less.