Let's say the don't attack,but building start new ships in Cardassia for a few months? I mean,altough they were pretty succesful early in the war,but with like 1000 new fighters (I don't know their canonical name),and a few battlecruisers (like the one in 'Valiant') they could have been able to win the war,aren't they?
What would have happened if the Dominion did not attack when the minefield was created?
- Thread starter Hadrian
- Start date
That's why Starfleet mined the wormhole. So if this didn't work, Starfleet would provoke the Dominion in some other fashion.
A direct frontal assault wouldn't be their first choice, as they wanted to open up the war with a feint and strike at sites vacated by the Dominion warships due to the feint. But where else to strike? They could do the Maquis thing and pretend they launched a massive cloaked strike against, say, Cardassia Prime, "accidentally" leaking news of this strike to the Founders. That would probably send much of the Dominion fleet trying to find and stop the missiles, meaning Starfleet could strike at the now defenseless shipyards. Or then make the Dominion evacuate Cardassia in panic, in favor of those shipyard sites, so Starfleet could move in to Cardassia Prime instead.
If nothing else worked, Starfleet could always try and invade Gamma Quadrant again, striking at the hideout world revealed in "Broken Link" (or pretending to, as they really didn't know its whereabouts).
The one thing that wouldn't happen is Starfleet letting the Dominion build more ships on Cardassia in peace. War was scheduled for "Call to Arms", and war is what Starfleet was going to have.
Timo Saloniemi
A direct frontal assault wouldn't be their first choice, as they wanted to open up the war with a feint and strike at sites vacated by the Dominion warships due to the feint. But where else to strike? They could do the Maquis thing and pretend they launched a massive cloaked strike against, say, Cardassia Prime, "accidentally" leaking news of this strike to the Founders. That would probably send much of the Dominion fleet trying to find and stop the missiles, meaning Starfleet could strike at the now defenseless shipyards. Or then make the Dominion evacuate Cardassia in panic, in favor of those shipyard sites, so Starfleet could move in to Cardassia Prime instead.
If nothing else worked, Starfleet could always try and invade Gamma Quadrant again, striking at the hideout world revealed in "Broken Link" (or pretending to, as they really didn't know its whereabouts).
The one thing that wouldn't happen is Starfleet letting the Dominion build more ships on Cardassia in peace. War was scheduled for "Call to Arms", and war is what Starfleet was going to have.
Timo Saloniemi
But with a few holo-emitters,they could have faked a "retreat" to Gamma Quadrant before the minefield was completed,couldn't they?
I don't understand why did the Dominion sent any warships into Cardassia,they could just send some cargo ships with the necessary equipment to manufacture ships and to breed Jem'Hadar.(And Weyoun-9+) I know it's just a TV series and that the Federation HAD to win the war,but still,the Dominion could have won that war if there weren't any Prophets.
I don't understand why did the Dominion sent any warships into Cardassia,they could just send some cargo ships with the necessary equipment to manufacture ships and to breed Jem'Hadar.(And Weyoun-9+) I know it's just a TV series and that the Federation HAD to win the war,but still,the Dominion could have won that war if there weren't any Prophets.
They were building ships in the Alpha Quadrant: in Call to Arms, Sisko says that mining the wormhole was also a diversion for an attack on Dominion shipyards.
In general, it would have been reckless to let their forces go out of supply by not opposing the minefield. Certainly the plot made it seem as if the course of the war would be irreversibly changed if supplies from the Gamma Quadrant. Of course, some things, like Ketracel White, were described as highly control and guarded substances that could not be manufactured on a whim. Even so, it's not difficult to imagine the complexity of setting up an entirely new military industry where one did not exist.
The situation bore much historical realism as well. The fate of the nations in both world wars was tightly linked to the search for and securing of industrial resources and the accelerating of the manufacturing process. It is difficult to imagine how well Britain could have actively opposed Germany without Lend Lease, and even with it and American involvement in the war, British factories were still heavily overtaxed by war manufacturing. A good part of Germany's military planning was based on the general staff's knowledge that Germany did not itself have the industrial resources to fight a prolonged war. Indeed, there was a strong economic impetus behind Blitzkrieg: fight short wars to get the materiel (and the labor) to fight long wars.
In general, it would have been reckless to let their forces go out of supply by not opposing the minefield. Certainly the plot made it seem as if the course of the war would be irreversibly changed if supplies from the Gamma Quadrant. Of course, some things, like Ketracel White, were described as highly control and guarded substances that could not be manufactured on a whim. Even so, it's not difficult to imagine the complexity of setting up an entirely new military industry where one did not exist.
The situation bore much historical realism as well. The fate of the nations in both world wars was tightly linked to the search for and securing of industrial resources and the accelerating of the manufacturing process. It is difficult to imagine how well Britain could have actively opposed Germany without Lend Lease, and even with it and American involvement in the war, British factories were still heavily overtaxed by war manufacturing. A good part of Germany's military planning was based on the general staff's knowledge that Germany did not itself have the industrial resources to fight a prolonged war. Indeed, there was a strong economic impetus behind Blitzkrieg: fight short wars to get the materiel (and the labor) to fight long wars.
If the Dominion had retreated to Cardassia after the minefield went up and started building ships and breeding Gem Hadar they might have won but it would have taken 50 more years. And we know at that point the Founders had been poisoned already, so that would have caused a very bloody victory for the Feds unless they managed to broker a deal, the cure for complete withdrawal.
The Dominion is patient enough to wait, but Cardassia isn't so they'd have to completely take over earlier than planned which would make it difficult to find other AQ allies. The Dominion still might have eventually won this way but it would have been much harder to take any planet intact. Having killed a billion Cardassians to keep the planet under submission they will have totally closed off all diplomatic avenues.
This actually brings up an interesting idea. That if the Dominion had retreated to Cardassia to arm up sooner it might have been Section 31 that saved the Federation.
The Dominion is patient enough to wait, but Cardassia isn't so they'd have to completely take over earlier than planned which would make it difficult to find other AQ allies. The Dominion still might have eventually won this way but it would have been much harder to take any planet intact. Having killed a billion Cardassians to keep the planet under submission they will have totally closed off all diplomatic avenues.
This actually brings up an interesting idea. That if the Dominion had retreated to Cardassia to arm up sooner it might have been Section 31 that saved the Federation.
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When the Dominion first began its military buildup in some Gamma Quadrant nebula, they already held the advantage. The Federation had just gone to war over the Archanis sector with the Klingons and then fought a Borg invasion that went from the Typhon sector all the way to Earth's solar system. Starfleet was not prepared for another conflict. Then once the Dominion moved its invasion fleet into the Alpha Quadrant, things got even worse when the Cardassians pledged the full support of all its military forces to the Dominion as well.
The Dominion was already in a good position to attack and the Federation knew it, so they quickly resigned the treaty of alliance with the Klingons. But even then they weren't all that confident they could hold back the Dominion.
To further secure their position the Dominion sent even more warships and ground troops to the Alpha Quadrant. They also offered non-aggression pacts to every other major power in the Alpha Quadrant. The most important was to get the Romulans to sign since the Romulans had attacked them in the past and like the Klingons and the Federation, considered the Dominion a huge threat.
Now suddenly the Federation decides to mine the only passageway to the Gamma Quadrant and the rest of the Dominion. It's not surprising the Dominion considered that an act of war and attacked right away.
If the Dominion waited around to build more ships, it would make them look weak for not standing up to the Federation. They may lose respect from their new AQ allies including the Romulans. Federation diplomats will be constantly trying to turn the AQ powers against to the Dominion. And while the Dominion is building ships, Starfleet can also rebuild their ships lost during the Borg invasion. There's also the issue of manpower. The Dominion did not breed AQ Jem'hadar until after its reinforcements were destroyed by the prophets. So even if they did wait around to build more warships, they will need the troops to man them as well.
Obviously in retrospect the war didn't turn out well for the Dominion. But at the time the minefield was put in place, the Dominion did hold every advantage. If they decided to stay in Cardassian territory and build more ships, who knows how long that advantage will last. The Borg, unlike the Dominion always just goes straight for Earth. They didn't attack any Federation shipyards. So in a year, Starfleet could be back to full strength. The Romulans, the Tholians, maybe even the Breen might decide to come out of isolation and turn against the Dominion.
Ironically the Dominion might have tried to learn from the Borg. When the Federation committed its fleet to retake DS9, they had the opportunity to launch a full scale invasion of Earth. But of course, they had no idea that the prophets would destroy their reinforcements.
The Dominion was already in a good position to attack and the Federation knew it, so they quickly resigned the treaty of alliance with the Klingons. But even then they weren't all that confident they could hold back the Dominion.
To further secure their position the Dominion sent even more warships and ground troops to the Alpha Quadrant. They also offered non-aggression pacts to every other major power in the Alpha Quadrant. The most important was to get the Romulans to sign since the Romulans had attacked them in the past and like the Klingons and the Federation, considered the Dominion a huge threat.
Now suddenly the Federation decides to mine the only passageway to the Gamma Quadrant and the rest of the Dominion. It's not surprising the Dominion considered that an act of war and attacked right away.
If the Dominion waited around to build more ships, it would make them look weak for not standing up to the Federation. They may lose respect from their new AQ allies including the Romulans. Federation diplomats will be constantly trying to turn the AQ powers against to the Dominion. And while the Dominion is building ships, Starfleet can also rebuild their ships lost during the Borg invasion. There's also the issue of manpower. The Dominion did not breed AQ Jem'hadar until after its reinforcements were destroyed by the prophets. So even if they did wait around to build more warships, they will need the troops to man them as well.
Obviously in retrospect the war didn't turn out well for the Dominion. But at the time the minefield was put in place, the Dominion did hold every advantage. If they decided to stay in Cardassian territory and build more ships, who knows how long that advantage will last. The Borg, unlike the Dominion always just goes straight for Earth. They didn't attack any Federation shipyards. So in a year, Starfleet could be back to full strength. The Romulans, the Tholians, maybe even the Breen might decide to come out of isolation and turn against the Dominion.
Ironically the Dominion might have tried to learn from the Borg. When the Federation committed its fleet to retake DS9, they had the opportunity to launch a full scale invasion of Earth. But of course, they had no idea that the prophets would destroy their reinforcements.
For the Dominion there was also likely a certain top level micro management built in with the Founders. This was probably cultural throughout their political and Military structure. Jem'Hadar were bred for tactical competency, not strategic. And the Horta were Bureaucrats and Toadies. Some good tactical thinking among them, but they get weird when they feel cut off from the Founders or if they feel a Founder is in danger. They are by and large intergalactic yes men. Mining the Wormhole was something they could not not respond to. They couldn't or wouldn't wait it out. It cut them off from the Founders. And worse left one or more Founders cut off and trapped with them. Cut off from the great link. Their psychology likely would not allow them to wait without at least attempting to destroy that blockade or prevent it from being put in place.
I'm sure they could...or just kidnap Odo....
I see your point. But what if they,instead of instantly attacking,convince the Breen and some other powers to side with them during the war? That way they could kick the UFP out of the quadrant,couldn't they?
That is regrettably pretty much true.
The Dominion was in a good position to attack but not to take the entire AQ and mostly intact surrounded on all sides. The act of aggression gave them a pretext to attack the UFP without scaring other powers. But non aggression pacts are different from convincing a major power to devote their entire military to your fight.
Yes they could, but like I said, the Federation diplomats will be trying to do the same thing. While the Vorta are talking to the Breen, the Feds could be talking the Romulans back into the war. At the time of that the minefield went up the Romulans had just signed the non-aggression pact. And most other AQ powers like the Breen were staying neutral. Their best chance was to attack right away before other AQ powers start changing their minds.
