Star Trek: Axanar

[Harvey]

going back to the actual production itself:

The creators of "Star Trek: Axanar" have their sights set on fully funding the first two "episodes" of the film through crowdfunding alone, which would require a new goal of $660,000. For that, they plan to ask an old "Star Trek" ally to help.

http://www.space.com/30058-star-trek-axanar-targets-george-takei.html

Maybe I've missed this because I haven't followed the financial side that closely - I thought the money was to make a film - instead its going to be episodes that they stitch together later?

This has been discussed before, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Speaking both logistically and financially, there's a reason most professional productions do not shoot chronologically. What if there's a location in two of the acts, and it becomes unavailable or changes dramatically between shooting them? What if an actor is in two acts, and gets a professional job after shooting only one?

Unless a serious influx of cash arrives in the next two weeks, it seems likely that they will only be able to finance a partial shoot with this fundraiser. Hopefully they'll reexamine their plan before scheduling the first shooting block.

 

[Tom]

I honestly can't understand why they can't do the whole film with the money they have raised so far.

Let see here. First, lets removed the 100k for Prelude, that 100k made that special and it is over and done with. So we have 638k on the first Kickstarter, originally their goal was 100k with stretch goals for sets, etc. They got a whopping 638k (minus Kickstarter fees, of course). The Kickstarter page listed 325k for the sets and the studio, and stated they need $325k to 425K for production. So if we take the higher amount of 425k and add the 325k (for the sets, studio) that is $750k. So at best this current Indiegogo campaign (at 320k right now) should only be asking for about 200K in total for the whole film?? Why ask for 1.3 million to do the whole production. From what have read fans are questioning this. They are basically saying the need 1.9 million to do the whole film.

By way of comparison of the bigger fan films/series, Renegades got just under 400k to do a 90 minute film that had ALL professional (SAG) actors in the principle cast (this does not include extras or walk on roles) and also had all the space VFX done by Tobias, who is also working on Axanar (also P2 and Pike). Many professionals in the crew actually volunteered there time so they would not have to ask the fans for even more money out of their pockets to pay them. So we went from 400k to 1.9 million as the new standard? STC can rattle out a couple of episodes for ~200k, although there very light on VFX and are mostly bottle shows (for now anyways). I'm not sure about P2's budget so I cant say.

Not attacking but just being analytical here.

 

[northstar]

I expect a lot more from Axanar then Renegades delivered. Their sets left a lot to be desired (I mean, the TNG bridge and the rooms were just wall elements, then they had a cave element and the rest they filmed very obviously in the overused Laurel Canyon sets. Same goes for the really bad fitting costumes. And as far as I know they didn´t pay for any of the VFX. So while Renegades is a nice fan film, it is far from the level that Axanar tries to accomplish.

And I think you are working with numbers from their "Set" Kickstarter, which, if you would follow Peters posts on FB and elsewhere, have changed quite a bit due to unforseen costs. They even published the use of all the money from the Prelude Kickstarter and they did a report on where all the other money went. Would love to see that from ANY of the other fan productions...

 

[Tom]

For 1.9 mill my expectations are very high. Again, with the VFX, the same guy is doing them. Fans were told in the first Kickstarter that production cost is $325k to $425k and set and studios needs are 325k (so that's 750k in total), they got 638k. So even after the KS fees at best they should only be asking for 200k to do the whole film. Now they say well we can only do one episode (act?) for 330k?. That's not what fans were led to believe in the first Kickstarter, it is a bit misleading (at least to me).

 

[mos6507]

There has to be some upper ceiling for how much the public will be willing to donate to a project like this, but the big productions have pretty much gotten whatever they've asked for until now. It will be interesting to see if Axanar hits the ceiling. If they do, I hope they have a realistic contingency-plan to complete the project more economically.

 

[Maurice]

I've said it before: the moment you start paying a crew the costs go up really fast. If you pay everyone on the crew, the costs go up even faster. Pay each person $10 an hour for a 12 hour day and you're at $600 per (5-day) week per person on the crew, Assume a daily cast and crew of 30, and there's $18,000 gone right away. If they're paying anyone better than that, the numbers just keep heading north. I'm budgeting a film we might crowdfund, so I'm elbows deep in this exact question.

 

[SeerSGB]

There has to be some upper ceiling for how much the public will be willing to donate to a project like this, but the big productions have pretty much gotten whatever they've asked for until now. It will be interesting to see if Axanar hits the ceiling. If they do, I hope they have a realistic contingency-plan to complete the project more economically.

I've been wondering on this myself. At one point is too much? And at what point does $$ = assumption/misconception that a given project is an official product based on the budget alone. When 100K and 1mil+ numbers get tossed around, it sure doesn't sound like a "hobby".

At some point CBS/Paramount is going to step in and rap them on the nose with rolled-up newspaper.

 

[Mark 2000]

I expect a lot more from Axanar then Renegades delivered. Their sets left a lot to be desired (I mean, the TNG bridge and the rooms were just wall elements, then they had a cave element and the rest they filmed very obviously in the overused Laurel Canyon sets.

Not sure you should. Their Vulcan preview was all CG.

 

[Tom]

I've said it before: the moment you start paying a crew the costs go up really fast. If you pay everyone on the crew, the costs go up even faster. Pay each person $10 an hour for a 12 hour day and you're at $600 per (5-day) week per person on the crew, Assume a daily cast and crew of 30, and there's $18,000 gone right away. If they're paying anyone better than that, the numbers just keep heading north. I'm budgeting a film we might crowdfund, so I'm elbows deep in this exact question.

Is it something you can get volunteers to help (like set help, Pa's that sort of thing)?

 

[Maurice]

To me (and this is personal view, not judgement of anyone other production) there are downsides to volunteer crews, not least of which is it can start to feel exploitative to ask a bunch of people to give you a lot of their time and effort for free, especially when you are raising $$$ to make the film. If I'm paying the lead actors, why do they deserve pay and not the crew, at least nominally?

Just my approach.

 

[OpenMaw]

Either way, I wager they're already at the "ceiling" for as much money as has been given to them already, that's not exactly small potatoes.

 

[northstar]

If I remember it correctly, it was actually Renegades that started the thing with the multiple fundraisers - first 250K via Kickstarter. Then they realized that thats not enough, so they did an Indigogo campaign (because you can´t campaign twice on the same goal on Kickstarter), and then they go a third time to the well for the VFX, which not even brought in the already very low minimum amount because by then people probably had enough - same effect that Axanar is most likely experiencing at the moment.

At least Axanar made it clear from the beginning what the campaigns were for.

Of course it is a big amount of money, but as Maurice said - once you start doing things the right way and start paying your staff, money goes quickly. And it is still a drop on a hot stone compared to the 200million a "real" Star Trek movie costs.

And the VFX for Renegades were done by a large number of different people according to the credits, not one. Thats the only way this could be done with almost no budget for those guys.

I really wonder where the 400K went and would love to see a documentation like Axanar did.

I fully agree with Maurice - if you pay the actors, pay the crew as well.

For 1.9 mill my expectations are very high. Again, with the VFX, the same guy is doing them. Fans were told in the first Kickstarter that production cost is $325k to $425k and set and studios needs are 325k (so that's 750k in total), they got 638k. So even after the KS fees at best they should only be asking for 200k to do the whole film. Now they say well we can only do one episode (act?) for 330k?. That's not what fans were led to believe in the first Kickstarter, it is a bit misleading (at least to me).

 

[Karzak]

If I remember it correctly, it was actually Renegades that started the thing with the multiple fundraisers - first 250K via Kickstarter. Then they realized that thats not enough, so they did an Indigogo campaign (because you can´t campaign twice on the same goal on Kickstarter), and then they go a third time to the well for the VFX, which not even brought in the already very low minimum amount because by then people probably had enough - same effect that Axanar is most likely experiencing at the moment.

At least Axanar made it clear from the beginning what the campaigns were for.

Of course it is a big amount of money, but as Maurice said - once you start doing things the right way and start paying your staff, money goes quickly. And it is still a drop on a hot stone compared to the 200million a "real" Star Trek movie costs.

And the VFX for Renegades were done by a large number of different people according to the credits, not one. Thats the only way this could be done with almost no budget for those guys.

I really wonder where the 400K went and would love to see a documentation like Axanar did.

I fully agree with Maurice - if you pay the actors, pay the crew as well.

For 1.9 mill my expectations are very high. Again, with the VFX, the same guy is doing them. Fans were told in the first Kickstarter that production cost is $325k to $425k and set and studios needs are 325k (so that's 750k in total), they got 638k. So even after the KS fees at best they should only be asking for 200k to do the whole film. Now they say well we can only do one episode (act?) for 330k?. That's not what fans were led to believe in the first Kickstarter, it is a bit misleading (at least to me).

The difference being, of course, we have a definitive item to which we can point where the money from the Renegades fundraisers went in this case - it paid for the completed film, which is very shortly going to be screened publicly and presented to the backers as well, if it hasn't already.

Axanar cannot make that claim yet.

 

[BigJake]

The difference being, of course, We know where the money from the fundraisers went in this case - it paid for the completed film, which is very shortly going to be screened publicly and presented to the backers as well, if it hasn't already.

Axanar cannot make that claim yet.

I don't understand what this comment is referring to. Multiple parties including Maurice have already explained why the costs would be higher for Axanar... so, what else is up? Is this in reference to the possible lawsuit business and where those costs would be coming from?

 

[Karzak]

The difference being, of course, We know where the money from the fundraisers went in this case - it paid for the completed film, which is very shortly going to be screened publicly and presented to the backers as well, if it hasn't already.

Axanar cannot make that claim yet.

I don't understand what this comment is referring to.

I was responding to North Star's post, in which he very clearly was casting doubt and perhaps a little suspicion on the Renegades production team regarding their fundraising methods. You know, the comment immediately preceding mine?

Presumably you wouldn't be implying that the Axanar team should be presumed dishonest until the film is in the can, that would be absurd, and multiple parties including Maurice have already explained why the costs would be higher... so, what? Is this in reference to the possible lawsuit business and where those costs would be coming from?

No, I was not. Good lord man. I wasn't implying anything of the kind. I was pointing out that unlike Axanar, Renegades has actually completed their film.

 

[BigJake]

^ Missed you with my edit, sorry about that.

As for northstar, I'm not really interested in Renegades' numbers but his question is certainly mild compared to what normally circulates in this thread.

 

[northstar]

No suspicion on my part on the Renegades fundraisers - I just find it interesting that they were the first (I think) to do multiple fundraisers. It was still not enough to get decent sets and costumes.

And they operated differently, relying heavily on volunteers work, which Axanar seemingly does not do to that extent (we will see about that if they don´t reach their goal). Renegades delivered a movie, so they fulfilled their end.

The result we got for 400K left a lot to be desired, at least to me from what I´ve seen in the backer version. It is definitaly not up to TV pilot standards. My hope for Axanar is that their standard is higher then Renegades, so I am accepting that they need more money.

I am a backer of both projects, but now my hope relies on Axanar. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but what I´ve seen so far lets me keep the hope.

 

[BillJ]

^ Missed you with my edit, sorry about that.

As for northstar, I'm not really interested in Renegades' numbers but his question is certainly mild compared to what normally circulates in this thread.

My God, what is your definition of harsh? Pretty much everything here is mild.

 

[BigJake]

^ Missed you with my edit, sorry about that.

As for northstar, I'm not really interested in Renegades' numbers but his question is certainly mild compared to what normally circulates in this thread.

My God, what is your definition of harsh? Pretty much everything here is mild.

You could ask me my definition of persistent, wrong-headed and annoying, perhaps closer to the mark. But maybe let's not go there just now.

...

Any-hoo, in other news, I notice a comment speculating about who's running that whacked-out AntiAxanar subreddit got taken down on the Axanar fan group a little while ago. I guess it could be that whatever the lawsuit talk is about was connected with that account.

 

[Maurice]

I'd like to make clear that I'm not saying whether or not Axanar is spending its money wisely. I was merely pointing out that the costs go up a lot when you pay people.