Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)

[Jax]

What happened with Stannis and his men must be one of the worst, and the most unsatisfying cases of anticlimax I've ever encountered in fiction. It's just plain retarded

The finale felt rushed at certain parts and I would call the season 5 finale the most unsatisfying to date for GOT. Stannis army being cut in half even before the battle began and then how it went was the litertally defenition of pointless waste of time & story and Snow's death just summed up the feeling evewn further for me.

 

[Captain Shaw]

With the death of John Snow, I just can't bring myself to care about anyone left at castle black.
I will just have to wait to see what series 6 brings, I was hoping they would find a role for Christopher lee but that will never happen now.

 

[DigificWriter]

Evidence that says Jon WON'T be back:
1) It's pointless to waste time and energy lying to the media just to keep Jon's fate a secret for less than a month (Season 6 starts filming in July, there's no chance that they could keep Kit's presence on the set a secret once filming starts, and there's absolutely no reason for them to not immediately reveal Jon's future fate should he in fact be coming back)

2) Dan and David are aware of future storylines and have demonstrated that they have no qualms whatsoever about spoiling said storylines through the show

3) Kit offered some fairly candid answers in the Exit Interview he did with Entertainment Weekly

 

[Harvey]

You've said as much already. We'll see.

 

[Ryan8bit]

there's no chance that they could keep Kit's presence on the set a secret once filming starts

Isn't it somewhat odd that he would die and that we'd never even see his body again in any context? Like for a funeral or something else? Even if it's true he's not coming back next season as a main cast member, wouldn't it be odd for him to not even have a guest role in the first episode?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

So, I think that is it for spoilers from the books. Are we going to get our next GoT fix for the new book or the show?

There is still a handful more, such as Arya's story, and a (possibly) alternate take on what happens outside of Winterfell.

There's also Sam and Gilly's trip to Oldtown (although much of it was used in other ways this season, but there's also Sam's arrival there) and Davos' own adventure which has been ignored but could possibly still happen.

I wonder if Davos, a man who is now without a cause, will end up taking his place?

Davos does have his own cause (per Stannis' bidding) in the books but hasn't happened (yet?).

Spoiler: Davos's unseen adventure in the books

I'm referring to his quest to find Rickon, who might be hiding on an island of cannibals. Considering George R.R. Martin really likes Natalie Tena's performance as Osha, it's possible she will eventually return.

 

[Cyke101]

there's no chance that they could keep Kit's presence on the set a secret once filming starts

Isn't it somewhat odd that he would die and that we'd never even see his body again in any context? Like for a funeral or something else? Even if it's true he's not coming back next season as a main cast member, wouldn't it be odd for him to not even have a guest role in the first episode?

For example, Charles Dance getting credit for Tywin Lannister's wake.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's true Millisandre's presence does offer a plausible way for Jon to be resurrected.

Jon's death does advance the plot. Now the one man the Wildlings trust is gone but all the Wildlings are on the same side of the wall. So it sets up an inevitable confrontation that will probably wipe the Watch out, and perhaps the Wildlings will appoint themselves the watchers, due to red hair guy being won over by Jon's intent.

It's true usually main character deaths serve a narrative purpose. But also characters always face the consequences of bad decisions. Jon Snow neglected the fact that his people were hateful creeps who were mostly only sent to the wall for criminal tendencies, and falsely assumed they would see the wisdom in his making peace with the enemy. They had to at least try to kill him.

As for Stannis, he wasn't needed in the story since the Battle of Blackwater. I suspect they only dragged his story out as long as they did because Millisandre's role stays important.

 

[JoeZhang]

As someone who doesn't give a shit about the books, I don't want Jon to come back to life - as soon as you do that, you kill the tension of what could happen to any major character. Leaving Jon dead is far more powerful to people like me who just watch a TV series.

 

[Darth_Daver]

As someone who doesn't give a shit about the books, I don't want Jon to come back to life - as soon as you do that, you kill the tension of what could happen to any major character. Leaving Jon dead is far more powerful to people like me who just watch a TV series.

But Beric Dondarrion came back even in the TV series. So there is a precedence for bringing people back.

 

[JoeZhang]

As someone who doesn't give a shit about the books, I don't want Jon to come back to life - as soon as you do that, you kill the tension of what could happen to any major character. Leaving Jon dead is far more powerful to people like me who just watch a TV series.

But Eric Dondarrion came back even in the TV series. So there is a precedence for bringing people back.

I have no idea who that is? Was that a major character?

 

[Darth_Daver]

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Beric_Dondarrion

 

[Bisz]

If they were just going to defeat and kill Stannis in this episode anyway, wouldn't it have been better to have him die because he made the nobler decision to not sacrifice his daughter in the previous episode, and that decision cost him the war because he did not honor the Lord of Light? Have him find some bit of redemption in the fact that his love for his daughter outweighed his ambitions?

As it stands, when Ramsay's Rohirrim rode his armies down, I didn't care, because I had nothing invested in Stannis any more after last week. He was always an asshole, but killing Shireen pushed him way over-the-edge. So it was just one irredeemable piece of shit destroying another, and I felt nothing during the entire scene. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

To each his own, I disagree with you 100%.

To me the Stannis bits were by the the highlight of the episode. Here is a man who sacrificed everything, including his beloved daughter, to try to save the realm from what is coming from the North. He had (almost) literally nothing left because he gave it all up, and only after he's been made to give up everything he held dear does he finally meet his end. That's tragedy.

Besides, would you want Shireen is Ramsey's hands?

No, I think that if Stannis was to loose, this was the way to go.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What was cool about the Daenerys scene was the Dothraki must have seen the dragon with her on it from a distance and ridden hard towards where they saw it land.

You can't imagine my trauma . I always hoped that perhaps the next chapter she'd finally leave that blasted city behind or the one after that. But she never did. She.Never.Did There were pages pon pages with practically nothing at all happening; pages upon pages, upon pages and then you turn the page, thinking it's over only to see that she will have baths, oogle Daario's ass and be upset over Meereen resisting her reforms for another 50 pages.

The TV version was fast-paced and action-packed in comparison.

This made me lol because yes, it went on so slowly and so forever

 

[Orphalesion]

It's true Millisandre's presence does offer a plausible way for Jon to be resurrected.

Jon's death does advance the plot. Now the one man the Wildlings trust is gone but all the Wildlings are on the same side of the wall. So it sets up an inevitable confrontation that will probably wipe the Watch out, and perhaps the Wildlings will appoint themselves the watchers, due to red hair guy being won over by Jon's intent.

It's true usually main character deaths serve a narrative purpose. But also characters always face the consequences of bad decisions. Jon Snow neglected the fact that his people were hateful creeps who were mostly only sent to the wall for criminal tendencies, and falsely assumed they would see the wisdom in his making peace with the enemy. They had to at least try to kill him.

As for Stannis, he wasn't needed in the story since the Battle of Blackwater. I suspect they only dragged his story out as long as they did because Millisandre's role stays important.

Oh Stannis is almost certainly dead, and he was never important.

As for Jon, he is (probably) central to the series' overall myth arc. When it comes down to it, the two storylines of both the show and bookas are 1) Starks vs. Lannisters and 2) Dany coming to Westeros, plus the Myth Arc of Ice and Fire. Everything else, (Stannis, Dorne, the Greyjoys, the Tyrells) is just window dressing.

I could see what you suggest working IF we had a clearer main character among the Wildlings. Red Beard is just peripheral. If Yigritte was still around I'd be more worried about Jon (though still not really).

I'd say that at the very least Jon, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, Tyrion, Daenerys and Littlefinger are all pretty safe until (at least) the start of the Endgame; Jamie, Cersei and Mellisandre possibly as well. Unless Mellisandre does give her life to restore Jon.

A single (possibly costly) resurrection does not immediately cheapen death imho, especially if you remember that resurrected people in GoT come back somewhat "broken" There's no telling how much of Jon will come back... he could end up being just above a Wight. How interesting would it be to explore a character like that?

As to Kit's hair. Everybody is making such a fuss over that all across the internet. People, there's this new invention called a "wig" with which the wardrobe department can give an actor any length and amount of hair they desire. Kit could wear a pink Mohawk in real life and they'd still be able to give Jon messy black curls for the screen.

 

[Camren]

It's true Millisandre's presence does offer a plausible way for Jon to be resurrected.

How so? She hasn't resurrected the dead before. Only Thoris of Myr has done that, and it was only one person he kept resurrecting (on the TV show, at least). I doubt Thoris or Melisandre could bring back any random person.

 

[davejames]

Well the "Stark vs Lannisters" arc (or any other role the Starks have in the larger story) could still be fulfilled perfectly well by Arya and Sansa Stark. No real need for Jon there.

And plus I never got the sense he cared that much about overthrowing the Lannisters or exacting revenge for the deaths they've caused anyway. Not to mention that he was way too good and noble a guy to survive for long in this world anyway; the idea that he would somehow survive til the end doesn't seem remotely realistic to me.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Besides, would you want Shireen is Ramsey's hands?

Shireen wouldn't have been there if Stannis had decided not to sacrifice her, because Stannis would have let her leave with Davos.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I also enjoyed that Zombie Mountain is finished.

I was surprised that Ramsay survived the finale.

That's also a good point that apparently nobody has bothered to burn Jon. It's true we haven't seen Millisandre bring back the dead but she's magicked a whole lot and is very much in communion with the lord of light, and clearly she took interest in Jon. There's possibly something there.

What happened to Loras and Margery? Did they separately confess and get the walk of shame?

I agree in general that bringing people back to life would cheapen death in the series. But the first one is free. I don't think Starbuck and Ellen cheapened death in BSG.

 

[FreezeC77]

If they were just going to defeat and kill Stannis in this episode anyway, wouldn't it have been better to have him die because he made the nobler decision to not sacrifice his daughter in the previous episode, and that decision cost him the war because he did not honor the Lord of Light? Have him find some bit of redemption in the fact that his love for his daughter outweighed his ambitions?

As it stands, when Ramsay's Rohirrim rode his armies down, I didn't care, because I had nothing invested in Stannis any more after last week. He was always an asshole, but killing Shireen pushed him way over-the-edge. So it was just one irredeemable piece of shit destroying another, and I felt nothing during the entire scene. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

To each his own, I disagree with you 100%.

To me the Stannis bits were by the the highlight of the episode. Here is a man who sacrificed everything, including his beloved daughter, to try to save the realm from what is coming from the North. He had (almost) literally nothing left because he gave it all up, and only after he's been made to give up everything he held dear does he finally meet his end. That's tragedy.

Besides, would you want Shireen is Ramsey's hands?

No, I think that if Stannis was to loose, this was the way to go.

The only part I hated was rather than tell Brienne to do her duty I would have wanted him to throw in her face SHE broke the lines of succession. Renly was NEVER the rightful king of the seven kingdoms as she stated. Stannis was older. He is the rightful heir to Robert (assuming there wasnt some secret document legitimizing Gendry)