Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

[Marsden]

No sign of Ward or Agent 33, which is fine with me...

There certaninly seems to be some opening in the management levels of HYDRA that they may be able to fill.

I'm still betting 33 ends up the MCU's Madame Hydra.

She was also known as Viper but that woman in the Wolverine movie was called that, but she was a really different character, maybe the name was sold or maybe she can be like Quicksilver and there's two versions of her. Either way, the facial scaring and Hydra association are really in line with her background.

I wonder if Ward is going to end up a comic book character like Mike turned into Dethlock and Skye has turned into Daisy.
Not necessary, but there were lots of Hydra mid level flunkies over the years.

It's funny but Kingpin was actually the head of a HYDRA group in Las Vegas a long time ago but while he has no problem being a criminal when he found out they are a terrorist orgainization he turned on them. Maybe this could even be connected in some small way to the DareDevil show is why I mention this. An organization that needs leadership may turn to people like Kingpin for that need.

 

[Sci]

I can't wait for the Skye-centric "One Hundred Years of Attitude."

Hmm. What else?

"The Director in His Triskelion."

"The Autumn of the Supreme Hydra."

"No One Writes to the Level Eight Agent."

"The Incredible and Sad Tale of Innocent Grant and His Heartless Brother."

"The Story of Two Shipwrecked Science Babies."

"Memories of My Melancholy Mutants."

...

You should see the episode titles for this old TV show:

Breaking Point (1963 TV series)

Fun titles, though they don't really fit the theme of adapting the titles of Gabriel García Márquez books.

* * *

I don't think we've seen the last of Hydra by a long shot. Not only is, as noted above, an upcoming episode entitled "Love in the Time of Hydra," but they're still this huge antagonist driving the series. Yeah, we've got the Inhumans, Ward/33, and Cal running around, but SHIELD doesn't have a clear beef with the Inhumans, and the other two are much smaller potatoes.

And on top of this -- yeah, SHIELD just manipulated Hydra into killing several of their major leaders, but the organizational infrastructure below each of those leaders is still in place.

Speaking of which -- did anyone else, in watching the Hydra leaders, get a distinct "Circle of the Black Thorn" vibe, a la Angel Season Five?

I still have a bit of cognitive dissonance over seeing a sheik in full Arab garb as a member of an organization that started out as Nazis. I suppose this goes back to my general skepticism over the idea that a Nazi cult could ever evolve into one that isn't racist.

Jemma's sudden preoccupation with the idea of aliens as contagion was unexpected, but I can see it. They never acted on it, but I think she and Tripp had feelings for each-other, in addition to being friends -- remember, they survived the Hydra uprising at the Hub together; that kind of shared trauma has to bind people together at a deep level. So literally seeing him shattered into a million pieces must have been a huge psychological blow. Add to this the fact that she herself almost died of a Chitauri virus? And the various other traumas she's seen her friends undergo as a result of exposure to alien biology -- Mack having his body taken over and Coulson becoming obsessively fixated on the Kree city markings... And all of this to say nothing of the general fact that almost everyone's first exposure to aliens in the MCU was the Chitauri invasion of New York?

Yeah, I can see her becoming fixated on alien-biology-as-contagion. I just hope it's a phase.

No real movement on the Fitz/Simmons front. Oh well.

 

[theenglish]

Hail Hydra! Cut off one head, two more shall take its place!

 

[Marsden]

I still have a bit of cognitive dissonance over seeing a sheik in full Arab garb as a member of an organization that started out as Nazis. I suppose this goes back to my general skepticism over the idea that a Nazi cult could ever evolve into one that isn't racist.

I find that to be a strange thing to say, as the Nazis and many Arabs were good friends and allies against the French and especially the British in places like Iraq and Syria. In fact some of the area's facist parties can trace it back to that association.

 

[Reverend]

I'll bet that Bobbi and Mack are spying for Stark/The Avengers via Maria Hill, and that this is set-up for the show's tie-in angle with AoU.

That makes a lot of sense and I would much prefer that over another new antagonistic organization.

That does seem the more likely choice, but I'm not sure why Maria Hill would try to sneak around behind Coulson's back like that. She's even closer to Fury than he is and one of the few people to know that Fury is still alive. You'd think if she needed something from the toolbox she could just ask, no?

Clearly something more is going on.

I still have a bit of cognitive dissonance over seeing a sheik in full Arab garb as a member of an organization that started out as Nazis. I suppose this goes back to my general skepticism over the idea that a Nazi cult could ever evolve into one that isn't racist.

The way I tend to think of it is that Schmidt's attitude towards the Nazi ideal of a superior human is similar to that of Shaw's* from X-men First Class. Specifically that it's pathetically narrow minded and superficial. Indeed I recall Red Skull mentioning in TFA that his quasi-exile was due to his appearance no longer fitting in with the Nazi ideal.
Also keep in mind that this version of Hydra grew from seeds planted by Zola in the late 40's/early 50's. Zola was nothing if not pragmatic.


* ...who I just now realised is also called Schmidt. I wonder if that was an intentional nod on the part of the XFC screenwriters? IIRC the comic book version of Shaw had nothing to do with the Nazis, so it's certainly possible.

 

[Reverend]

[EDIT] Double Post

 

[Gryffindorian]

That reminds me, last time I saw Ward, he was escaping with Raina, who asked him, "What do we do now?" to which he replied, "We survive." So where is Ward?

 

[Marsden]

That reminds me, last time I saw Ward, he was escaping with Raina, who asked him, "What do we do now?" to which he replied, "We survive." So where is Ward?

That was 33, not Raina. Sorry.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'll bet that Bobbi and Mack are spying for Stark/The Avengers via Maria Hill, and that this is set-up for the show's tie-in angle with AoU.

That makes a lot of sense and I would much prefer that over another new antagonistic organization.

First and foremost, I don't get the vibe that they're traitors/bad guys...which implies that they're on a covert mission for friendlies. Fury himself doesn't make a lot of sense since they're trying to obtain something that Fury himself just entrusted Coulson with.

And the show would have to be planning some sort of AoU tie-in, so I'd be surprised if this wasn't part of it at this point.

Plus, Bobbi was an Avenger in the comics, so it would be a nice nod if she were basically their operative here.

That does seem the more likely choice, but I'm not sure why Maria Hill would try to sneak around behind Coulson's back like that. She's even closer to Fury than he is and one of the few people to know that Fury is still alive. You'd think if she needed something from the toolbox she could just ask, no?

But she doesn't work for Fury anymore, she works for Stark...and part of Stark's story for AoU is that he's supposed to be trying to privatize world security (already referenced on the show, IIRC), so he may see any odd SHIELD cells that are still in operation as rivals/obstacles on that front. And Hill's more likely to appear on the show to tie in with AoU than Stark is.

 

[gblews]

Fitz was definitely the star of this episode, both in his scene with Mack and his rescue of Skye. They seem to be setting up a conflict between Fitz and Simmons over the "Inhuman issue." I wonder if Simmons will decide that she loves Fitz after all, but at that point he'll be put off by her bigotry.

I like the sound of this.

It was nice that they devoted so much time to Tripp. I especially liked Coulson visiting his mom personally and the scene where everyone is sitting around talking about him. I was kind of hoping that there would be a last minute save....

My favorite part of the episode. Particularly loved it when Skye and Gemma imitated Tripp's soft southern accent, "c'mon girrrrrl". This is the way you deal with an important character's death, you show it's impact on his friends, family, and colleagues. Not like another show I could name that killed off a major character and then ignored it.

Count me among those who believes that Fitz was wrong to break quarantine protocol in favor of friendship. Even if Skye turns out to be infection free, Fitz' unprofessional and emotional act potentially endangered ALL of his friends, not to mention the world at large.

Great to have AoS back.

 

[Christopher]

But she doesn't work for Fury anymore, she works for Stark...and part of Stark's story for AoU is that he's supposed to be trying to privatize world security (already referenced on the show, IIRC), so he may see any odd SHIELD cells that are still in operation as rivals/obstacles on that front. And Hill's more likely to appear on the show to tie in with AoU than Stark is.

That makes a lot of sense. Particularly given that you've got Hawkeye on the Avengers and Mockingbird here. A connection between them is plausible. And the timing is right for this to be a setup for the upcoming movie.

 

[Marsden]

But she doesn't work for Fury anymore, she works for Stark...and part of Stark's story for AoU is that he's supposed to be trying to privatize world security (already referenced on the show, IIRC), so he may see any odd SHIELD cells that are still in operation as rivals/obstacles on that front. And Hill's more likely to appear on the show to tie in with AoU than Stark is.

That does make sense, because he may no longer trust any SHIELD at all because of what they almost did, took his repulsor tech to make supercarriers and kill him. Tony doesn't stricke me as the kind of person to either take that lightly or not know he had a target on his forehead even if it was only for a few seconds. It specifically showed him being targeted befor Cap switched the blade chip and then Nat dumped it online. Even if Tony somehow didn't catch it from the net with Jarvis monitoring things, then I'm sure either of them would have mentioned it over Shawarma. This would also be a good logical start in to Civil War with Stark turning into his own kind of monster trying to control everything.

 

[Reverend]

But she doesn't work for Fury anymore, she works for Stark...and part of Stark's story for AoU is that he's supposed to be trying to privatize world security (already referenced on the show, IIRC), so he may see any odd SHIELD cells that are still in operation as rivals/obstacles on that front. And Hill's more likely to appear on the show to tie in with AoU than Stark is.

That makes a lot of sense. Particularly given that you've got Hawkeye on the Avengers and Mockingbird here. A connection between them is plausible. And the timing is right for this to be a setup for the upcoming movie.

It doesn't really account for why Hill wouldn't simply *ask* Coulson. It'd make a lot more sense for Avengers, Inc. to co-operate with SHIELD than sneaking around behind their back and stepping on toes.

The only way it'd make sense is if she's after something she knows Coulson would *never* agree to. Something worth the risk of loosing SHIELD as an ally or asset and weakening them internally by having double agents sew mistrust if/when they get found out. Hence: something more is going on.

 

[theenglish]

I'll bet that Bobbi and Mack are spying for Stark/The Avengers via Maria Hill, and that this is set-up for the show's tie-in angle with AoU.

That makes a lot of sense and I would much prefer that over another new antagonistic organization.

First and foremost, I don't get the vibe that they're traitors/bad guys...which implies that they're on a covert mission for friendlies. Fury himself doesn't make a lot of sense since they're trying to obtain something that Fury himself just entrusted Coulson with.

And the show would have to be planning some sort of AoU tie-in, so I'd be surprised if this wasn't part of it at this point.

Plus, Bobbi was an Avenger in the comics, so it would be a nice nod if she were basically their operative here.

That does seem the more likely choice, but I'm not sure why Maria Hill would try to sneak around behind Coulson's back like that. She's even closer to Fury than he is and one of the few people to know that Fury is still alive. You'd think if she needed something from the toolbox she could just ask, no?

But she doesn't work for Fury anymore, she works for Stark...and part of Stark's story for AoU is that he's supposed to be trying to privatize world security (already referenced on the show, IIRC), so he may see any odd SHIELD cells that are still in operation as rivals/obstacles on that front. And Hill's more likely to appear on the show to tie in with AoU than Stark is.

Wasn't it already announced the RDJ is making an appearance sometime this season?

 

[Christopher]

Wasn't it already announced the RDJ is making an appearance sometime this season?

From what I can find, he said in October that he'd be open to making an appearance on the show, and a few sites seem to have misread that as confirmation that he would, but I don't see any mention of it more recently than that.

Still, given that Downey is willing to do the show, you can bet the producers would bend over backward to work him in, as long as his schedule permitted it.

 

[theenglish]

Wasn't it already announced the RDJ is making an appearance sometime this season?

From what I can find, he said in October that he'd be open to making an appearance on the show, and a few sites seem to have misread that as confirmation that he would, but I don't see any mention of it more recently than that.

Still, given that Downey is willing to do the show, you can bet the producers would bend over backward to work him in, as long as his schedule permitted it.

Sorry, my mistake, it was Jeremy Renner. There was some debate as to whether or not he was just doing reshoots for Avengers though.

 

[DEWLine]

If memory works accurately, Downey has announced his interest, as has Renner. I'm assuming that, both having publicly announced that interest, it's since become a relatively(!) simple matter of amending contracts and working out the scheduling.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'll bet that Bobbi and Mack are spying for Stark/The Avengers via Maria Hill, and that this is set-up for the show's tie-in angle with AoU.

The first thing that occurred to me was that they were working for Edward James Olmos' upcoming character, and that he's making a move to take over and rebuild SHIELD in cooperation with the government again, but the government won't let Coulson remain in charge because he went on the run and was "possessed" by the alien blood, so he represents too high of a potential risk factor for them to let him stay in command.

They're setting up the anti-alien factionalization on the team with Mack and Simmons, and that may have influenced Mack's decision to assist in taking Fury's "tool box" from Coulson, whose judgment and ability to resist alien influence Mack now questions. Olmos' character, if he turns out to be along the lines that I'm thinking above, could further play into that division of loyalties among the team.

The way Olmos' character was described makes him sound like he's a sometimes antagonist/sometimes grudging ally but not necessarily an enemy; more in the manner of a Talbot than someone affiliated with Hydra for instance.

Olmos will play Robert Gonzales, whose debut this spring in “Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.” will have massive repercussions for Director Coulson and his team.

“Edward James Olmos brings an amazing gravitas to any role he inhabits, something we knew we needed for Robert Gonzales,” said Executive Producer and Marvel’s Head of Marvel Television, Jeph Loeb. “When Olmos first appears on our series, everyone will have to take notice--including our favorite Agents.”

The emphasis on his gravitas leads me to believe they're looking for someone to take a leadership role, and the rather mundane name (which does not correspond to any existing Marvel character) doesn't strike me as something you'd choose if you were creating a new Hydra villain. Also they emphasized Coulson's position as director in the press release and said Olmos' introduction will have "massive repercussions" for him and the team. Like a change of leadership perhaps?

It's all extremely circumstantial to say the least, but that's my two cents on who Mack and Bobbi are working for, since I don't see them as being traitors so soon after Ward and Hydra, and since they're introducing his character soon anyway.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The first thing that occurred to me was that they were working for Edward James Olmos' upcoming character

Ooooh...forgot about him, that's an intriguing possibility as well. If so, I'll bet it all ties into AoU somehow anyway.

 

[bbjeg]

^With that said...

I'll bet that Bobbi and Mack are spying for Stark/The Avengers via Maria Hill, and that this is set-up for the show's tie-in angle with AoU.

That makes a lot of sense and I would much prefer that over another new antagonistic organization.

That does seem the more likely choice, but I'm not sure why Maria Hill would try to sneak around behind Coulson's back like that. She's even closer to Fury than he is and one of the few people to know that Fury is still alive. You'd think if she needed something from the toolbox she could just ask, no?

Clearly something more is going on.

I think they could be working for S.T.R.I.K.E. and Robert Gonzales could be its leader. I have a feeling if Maria Hill (or Downey) makes an appearance, it will be after AoU premiers, similar to how every other movie-episode followed the movie it was based on.