The Down Under Lounge

[Botany Bay]

Yep, the Morgan poll on Monday that had the ALP leading 2PP 58-42 went understandably under the radar, as did the MYEFO foecasts showing a very soft economy next year.

Too many more polls like that in the new year will get the dogs barking, that's for sure.

It's likey we are heading into a national security and economy dominated 2015. The former is a happy place for the Coalition, so I"m not writing them off yet, but if the economy keeps tanking, all bets are off.

 

[Marc]

Yep, the Morgan poll on Monday that had the ALP leading 2PP 58-42 went understandably under the radar, as did the MYEFO foecasts showing a very soft economy next year.

Too many more polls like that in the new year will get the dogs barking, that's for sure.

It's likey we are heading into a national security and economy dominated 2015. The former is a happy place for the Coalition, so I"m not writing them off yet, but if the economy keeps tanking, all bets are off.

I don't put too much faith in the morgan polls - they tend to be outliers and their methodology is a tad unreliable.

There was also an Essential poll that asked if Tony Abbott would be P.M at the next election which saw 51% say no, 29% yes.

 

[jaz'a]

Still feeling a bit numb two days later.

Crowds in the CBD are well down on what you'd expect a week out from Christmas, which is understandable. This will take time.

You can see the hesitation in peoples' eyes crossing the street.

Many people this morning are asking why this guy wasn't just taken out through the glass door by a sniper when it became obvious who the gunman was, and that he had no allies. Just a pitiable, mentally ill sociopath who has fallen under the spell of Islamic terrorism. I know absolutely nothing about hostage negotiations, and I am inclined to give police the benefit of the doubt in such circumstances, but I have no good answer for them.

Two reasons they didn't take him out. Firstly the glass. Given the thickness of most shop front glass it would have been impossible to correctly predict the trajectory of any bullet. It could have gone off course and hit a hostage.

Second, the backpack. There were wires dangling from it and the police had no idea whether or not he had a bomb in there. If he did it could have been rigged to go off had he been taken out. Too big a risk.

Our police did an outstanding job and they should be very proud of themselves.

 

[jaz'a]

What I would like to know about Monday is what exactly caused those charges of sexual assault and accessory to murder. The courts are copping a lot of flack for allowing him out on bail. Even knowing what caused those charges it would be hard to judge whether or not the courts were wrong, but without that knowledge it is impossible.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that sexual assault =/= rape. It covers a wide range of possible offenses. Accessory to murder is also very different to murder, at least as I understand it. I do know that Monis had a very good track record of showing up when it was expected and that certainly would have helped him get bail. I do feel for the judges concerned. They are copping a lot of crap and the public simply doesn't have enough information (or knowledge of the law) to make a judgement about it.

 

[Australis]

Hockey is being a gutless coward and backflipped on his commitment to go after the multinationsl who are dodgying on tax.

Well, shit.

Got a link?

 

[Commishsleer]

Still feeling a bit numb two days later.

Crowds in the CBD are well down on what you'd expect a week out from Christmas, which is understandable. This will take time.

You can see the hesitation in peoples' eyes crossing the street.

Many people this morning are asking why this guy wasn't just taken out through the glass door by a sniper when it became obvious who the gunman was, and that he had no allies. Just a pitiable, mentally ill sociopath who has fallen under the spell of Islamic terrorism. I know absolutely nothing about hostage negotiations, and I am inclined to give police the benefit of the doubt in such circumstances, but I have no good answer for them.

I wondered that myself. It looked as though they had many clear shots from across the way at Chanel 7.
I can only think that probably 99/100 these hostage situations end up peacefully with the hostage-taker surrendering or at most taking their own lives.
Still you must wonder if police are only going to act once someone has died. I don't know what I want to happen though. I suppose I don't necessarily want some guy high on drugs holding his family hostage being taken out at first opportunity before negotiations have commenced.
Thank goodness most people in this country don't have access to guns.

 

[Botany Bay]

What I would like to know about Monday is what exactly caused those charges of sexual assault and accessory to murder. The courts are copping a lot of flack for allowing him out on bail. Even knowing what caused those charges it would be hard to judge whether or not the courts were wrong, but without that knowledge it is impossible.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that sexual assault =/= rape. It covers a wide range of possible offenses. Accessory to murder is also very different to murder, at least as I understand it. I do know that Monis had a very good track record of showing up when it was expected and that certainly would have helped him get bail. I do feel for the judges concerned. They are copping a lot of crap and the public simply doesn't have enough information (or knowledge of the law) to make a judgement about it.

During his October court appearance, it appears the DPP shrugged its shoulders and didn't object to his bail because on the previous two attempts the magistrate allowed it. As a matter of procedure, the magistrate on this third occasion continued his bail because she heard no objections against it.

So, what, exactly was he facing court in October for?

...he was accused of inciting his partner Amirah Droudis to murder his former wife Noleen Hayson Pal.

Police say Ms Pal, 30, was stabbed repeatedly and then set alight in the stairwell of her Werrington home on April 21, 2013.

Six months later, in October, Monis was charged with inciting, procuring, aiding and counselling Ms Droudis to murder Ms Pal, who died between 4.15 and 4.30pm.

He was also charged with assisting and harbouring Ms Droudis after the murder.

A month later, in November, Ms Droudis was charged with murder.

The pair appeared in court on November 15, 2013 and Monis did not apply for bail and it was formally refused. He was granted bail on December 12, 2013, but he remained in custody as he was unable to meet his bail conditions.

The self-styled sheikh was also charged with sexually assaulting seven women under the guise of "spiritual healing" sessions over more than a decade.

Court documents show Monis was accused of dozens of sexual offences including sexual intercourse without consent, touching the complainants' breasts, and rubbing their bodies with oil between 2002 and 2014.

Monis was running "Spiritual Consultation", a registered business, and the alleged assaults took place in a number of suburbs around Sydney including Wentworthville, Burwood and Liverpool.

Monis, who was charged under his alias Mohammad Manteghi, was freed from custody after Soula Droudis, the mother of Amirah Droudis, posted $1000 bail.

Also, he was found guilty last year on 12 charges of sending menacing letters to the families of dead diggers. In Australia he'd been previously found not guilty of stalking. He was also wanted in Iran for fraud. When he sought asylum for "political persecution", we waved him through despite the Iranians assurances he was wanted for theft. Soon after being granted asylum he came to the attention of police when he chained himself to a fence outside the NSW parliament.

Abbott was quite right to call an inquiry into these events. Having read this, on the face of it, it's hard to believe that this man was on the streets.

 

[Marc]

Hockey is being a gutless coward and backflipped on his commitment to go after the multinationsl who are dodgying on tax.

Well, shit.

Got a link?

As an oily cylon once said, "By your command"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...national-profit-shifters-20141216-128ebg.html

 

[Australis]

Thanx!

 

[Miss Chicken]

The killing of the eight children in Queensland is so utterly tragic, poor little ones.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-19/cairns-stabbing-leaves-8-children-dead-live-blog/5979544

 

[jaz'a]

What I would like to know about Monday is what exactly caused those charges of sexual assault and accessory to murder. The courts are copping a lot of flack for allowing him out on bail. Even knowing what caused those charges it would be hard to judge whether or not the courts were wrong, but without that knowledge it is impossible.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that sexual assault =/= rape. It covers a wide range of possible offenses. Accessory to murder is also very different to murder, at least as I understand it. I do know that Monis had a very good track record of showing up when it was expected and that certainly would have helped him get bail. I do feel for the judges concerned. They are copping a lot of crap and the public simply doesn't have enough information (or knowledge of the law) to make a judgement about it.

During his October court appearance, it appears the DPP shrugged its shoulders and didn't object to his bail because on the previous two attempts the magistrate allowed it. As a matter of procedure, the magistrate on this third occasion continued his bail because she heard no objections against it.

So, what, exactly was he facing court in October for?

...he was accused of inciting his partner Amirah Droudis to murder his former wife Noleen Hayson Pal.

Police say Ms Pal, 30, was stabbed repeatedly and then set alight in the stairwell of her Werrington home on April 21, 2013.

Six months later, in October, Monis was charged with inciting, procuring, aiding and counselling Ms Droudis to murder Ms Pal, who died between 4.15 and 4.30pm.

He was also charged with assisting and harbouring Ms Droudis after the murder.

A month later, in November, Ms Droudis was charged with murder.

The pair appeared in court on November 15, 2013 and Monis did not apply for bail and it was formally refused. He was granted bail on December 12, 2013, but he remained in custody as he was unable to meet his bail conditions.

The self-styled sheikh was also charged with sexually assaulting seven women under the guise of "spiritual healing" sessions over more than a decade.

Court documents show Monis was accused of dozens of sexual offences including sexual intercourse without consent, touching the complainants' breasts, and rubbing their bodies with oil between 2002 and 2014.

Monis was running "Spiritual Consultation", a registered business, and the alleged assaults took place in a number of suburbs around Sydney including Wentworthville, Burwood and Liverpool.

Monis, who was charged under his alias Mohammad Manteghi, was freed from custody after Soula Droudis, the mother of Amirah Droudis, posted $1000 bail.

Also, he was found guilty last year on 12 charges of sending menacing letters to the families of dead diggers. In Australia he'd been previously found not guilty of stalking. He was also wanted in Iran for fraud. When he sought asylum for "political persecution", we waved him through despite the Iranians assurances he was wanted for theft. Soon after being granted asylum he came to the attention of police when he chained himself to a fence outside the NSW parliament.

Abbott was quite right to call an inquiry into these events. Having read this, on the face of it, it's hard to believe that this man was on the streets.

Agreed on the last point. That is a lot worse that I expected it to be, given he was granted bail. Thanks for the information.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

A possum just FELL through my (dubiously installed) plastic skylight and ran all around the house. I was opening up all doors but in the end the damn thing was sitting on my bed. Eventually it had only one way out and left.

 

[Australis]

Running round the house in an awesome way?

You know who it was.

 

[Marc]

Running round the house in an awesome way?

You know who it was.

Only if he was willing to bear the wrath of teacake for coming through her skylight.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The skylight is okay, it just fell to the floor and wasn't broken. I have put it back and duct taped up the possum head size hole that the possum entered the skylight from in the plaster. It was a not the first time I've had had them in the house, chimney is blocked off for the same reason now. Sometimes they just walk in if the doors are open. Cheeky buggers.

 

[Commishsleer]

The killing of the eight children in Queensland is so utterly tragic, poor little ones.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-19/cairns-stabbing-leaves-8-children-dead-live-blog/5979544

The killing of 8 people is one of the biggest mass murders in Australia's recent history. A terrible tragedy.
I can't imagine how bad it would be for a 20-year old to come home and discover his 7 brothers and sisters and cousin stabbed to death.

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

^ Police have arrested the mother this morning. Not sure what the reason behind it was.

Anyways I'm off to Sydney as I head to Melbourne later on for Christmas and New Year with the family.

Again this year, looking forward to attending the cricket at the MCG. Not sure which day yet, probably day 2 or 3.

 

[Miss Chicken]

The killing of the eight children in Queensland is so utterly tragic, poor little ones.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-19/cairnsh-stabbing-leaves-8-children-dead-live-blog/5979544

The killing of 8 people is one of the biggest mass murders in Australia's recent history. A terrible tragedy.
I can't imagine how bad it would be for a 20-year old to come home and discover his 7 brothers and sisters and cousin stabbed to death.

I can still remember how shocked and upset I was back in 1971 when Cliff Bartholomew murdered his wife, sister-in-law, nephew (aged 18 months) and his 7 children (aged between 4 and 19 years) on a South Australian farm.

I was 13 years old at the time and before the murders didn't realise something like it could happen in Australia.


There was one child survivor of the Bartholomew family. She survived because she staying overnight at a friends's place on the evening of the killings. 8 years later she had to deal with the fact that her father, who originally received a death sentence which was commuted to life in prison, was let out on parole. He served only 8 years for the murder of 10 people.

 

[Marc]

The killing of the eight children in Queensland is so utterly tragic, poor little ones.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-19/cairnsh-stabbing-leaves-8-children-dead-live-blog/5979544

The killing of 8 people is one of the biggest mass murders in Australia's recent history. A terrible tragedy.
I can't imagine how bad it would be for a 20-year old to come home and discover his 7 brothers and sisters and cousin stabbed to death.

I can still remember how shocked and upset I was back in 1971 when Cliff Bartholomew murdered his wife, sister-in-law, nephew (aged 18 months) and his 7 children (aged between 4 and 19 years) on a South Australian farm.

I was 13 years old at the time and before the murders didn't realise something like it could happen in Australia.


There was one child survivor of the Bartholomew family. She survived because she staying overnight at a friends's place on the evening of the killings. 8 years later she had to deal with the fact that her father, who originally received a death sentence which was commuted to life in prison, was let out on parole. He served only 8 years for the murder of 10 people.

Despite being S.A born and raised I have no recollection of this case though my grandfather was a detective at the time and he would have.

Can imagine there was an outcry when he got parole after serving only years. That's a massive sentence cut considering he'd been destined for the gallows.

 

[Miss Chicken]

It is surprising how little one can find on the Internet about it. I searched yesterday and could!n't even find the names of the victims beyond the fact that his wife's name was Heather.

So I just downloaded a book called The Cruel City by Stephen Orr, that tells about some of the more horrific crimes that have taken place in Adelaide and the rest of Sourh Australia. It has a small chapter on the Bartholomew family murders. The victims were

Heather Bartlolomew
Mary Keane (Heather's sister) aged 23
Danny Keane 16 months

The seven Bartholomew children

Neville aged 19
Christine 17
Sharon 15
Helen 13
Gregory 11
Roger 9
Sandra 4

There is no mention of a daughter escaping because she was away at the time so maybe I remembered wrongly and she was from another family massacred.

Also the book only mentions him being charged with his wife's murder.