DS9 on blu ray?

[Maxwell Everett]

No, he's right. They're 1080i. I know, because I still have the HDTV MPEG-2 Transport Streams for I-IV, VI & VIII. In virtually every respect they look much better than the Blu-rays (sans II) because they don't have DNR applied and their grain structure is intact. You can see glimpses of these original 1080i masters at the beginning of the Captain's Summit interview on the last disc of the set.

I'm assuming your transport streams came from OTA, Cable or Satellite? I would have to ask how you know that they truly originated from 1080i masters? I question it because there have been numerous times where 720p HDTV broadcasts that are upconverted to 1080i. Here in Canada, back in February, the Canadian broadcasters of the Super Bowl were airing it in 1080i, ven though their originating feed was from Fox's 720p non-branded feed. Also, I believe ABC broadcasts 720p, but here Canadian Channels upconvert the 720p feeds/tapes to 1080i. So just to say that you have a HDTV 1080i feed raises some questions.

So the movies may've been transferred in 720p, but the current masters are just upressed versions, and the Blu-Ray producers decided to apply noise filters to make the movies look more like 2. We know that Paramount was going to release the theatrical version with Robert Wise's approve color-timing (as Darren Dochterman noted on the 2009 audio commentary), but for whatever reason Paramount went back after the commentary had been recorded and released the 1979 Color timing. So Paramount is known for not using the best masters for whatever reason.

There's no such thing as a "1080i master" for a film. Films are not interlaced and people often misunderstand what interlacing actually means. Video is only interlaced if there is temporal displacement between fields. For films, this is what happens (in 50 Hz countries):

1080p/25 video ---> broadcast as 1080i/25 ---> TV notices 2:2 cadence in signal and applies weave deinterlacing to display 1080p/25

It works in a similar way in 60 Hz countries:

1080p/24 video ---> broadcast as 1080i/30 ---> TV notices 2:3 cadence in signal and applies 2:3 pulldown deinterlacing to display 1080p/24

Those Star Trek 1080i streams contain 1080p video with no interlacing artefacts if they're played back properly.

Of course the source could be 1080i with interlacing artefacts but I don't even see how that's possible with a film, even in the hands of someone incompetent.

By "1080i master" I was referring to the videotape format. 1080/59.94i is absolutely a real tape format that a film can be telecined to. Yes, the film itself is composed of progressive frames, but the 1080i master is interlaced with pulldown just as you describe. So, yes, there is such a thing as a 1080i master and it is completely valid terminology. For example, here is film preservationist Robert A. Harris using it in reference to an old 2001 HD master that existed (circa 2010) for "Singin' in the Rain":

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/top...out™-spartacus-in-blu-ray/page-3#entry3580974

And he referred to the 1080i master again in in 2012 when the Blu-ray (based on a new 4K scan) came out and he reviewed it:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/315845-a-few-words-about™-singin-in-the-rain-in-blu-ray/

 

[DragonQ]

By "1080i master" I was referring to the videotape format. 1080/59.94i is absolutely a real tape format that a film can be telecined to. Yes, the film itself is composed of progressive frames, but the 1080i master is interlaced with pulldown just as you describe. So, yes, there is such a thing as a 1080i master and it is completely valid terminology. For example, here is film preservationist Robert A. Harris using it in reference to an old 2001 HD master that existed (circa 2010) for "Singin' in the Rain":

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/294422-a-few-words-about%E2%84%A2-spartacus-in-blu-ray/page-3#entry3580974

And he referred to the 1080i master again in in 2012 when the Blu-ray (based on a new 4K scan) came out and he reviewed it:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/315845-a-few-words-about™-singin-in-the-rain-in-blu-ray/

I see, thanks for clearing that up. Still, seems a bit confusing to call 1080p video a "1080i master" just because it's encoded in a 1080i stream. If that's the terminology in common use though, fair enough...

 

[MakeshiftPython]

There's film masters which prints are based on, and video masters which home media is based on. Trek, sadly, hasn't been getting the best treatment on the latter. With digital becoming such a thing, it would be great to see Trek get the kind of treatment other films have been given lately in the digital realm.

 

[Daveros]

I'm slightly annoyed that DS9 is not coming to Blu-ray.

I don't own the DVDs, and I never will in the current market of HD, but I would like to watch it again - and watch many episodes for the very first time.

I bought all the other Star Trek Blu-rays, first on a whim and then to complete the set/watch the rest of them and I fully expected to transition from TNG to DS9 when I started my purchasing binge, and it was pretty much half the reason I did. Enterprise and DS9 are my favourites, you see.

Anyway, it's probably too little too late now, but is there no way to show some sort of demand for this product?

 

[Harvey]

Regarding TWOK on Blu-ray, the extra SE DVD scene in Engineering that reveals Peter Preston's relationship to Scotty, was at the time of the Blu-ray release said not to be in good enough condition to be scanned in HD.

The DE of Star Trek 2 is available in HD on iTunes.

Wow, you're right...I just checked. But the DE of that film isn't as much of a leap over the theatrical cut as TMP is, amirite?

Meaning: The DE of TWOK just has a few minutes of extra footage. It doesn't have any actual new effects, like TMP's director cut does?

There are no new effects -- not that TWOK needs any.

 

[DragonQ]

I'm slightly annoyed that DS9 is not coming to Blu-ray.

Do we know this for sure? I thought there had barely been any comments about DS9 at all, except for that re-rendered effects shot from a few years back along with some commentary about how all of the digital files still exist.

The models would still have to be improved a bit for HD though, so I don't think it would be hugely easier than TNG.

 

[SPCTRE]

Anyway, it's probably too little too late now, but is there no way to show some sort of demand for this product?

Buy second copies of all the Blu-rays you already purchased, gift them to a friend or donate them.

 

[USS KG5]

I'm slightly annoyed that DS9 is not coming to Blu-ray.

Do we know this for sure? I thought there had barely been any comments about DS9 at all, except for that re-rendered effects shot from a few years back along with some commentary about how all of the digital files still exist.

The models would still have to be improved a bit for HD though, so I don't think it would be hugely easier than TNG.

To summarise the thread to date, there is no formal word, but some unofficial statements have said "no plans".

Blu Ray as a mainstream format has probably got a few years left, so it could happen still, but will not follow directly on from TNG, or we likely would be aware of a team working on it.

It would definitely be far more expensive than TNG for fewer sales, even before the big CGI battles DS9 used CGI for very mundane stuff like removing clutter.

If I was a gambling man, I'd say never on Blu Ray, maybe a half-assed remaster like Buffy for future streaming.

 

[DragonQ]

I'm slightly annoyed that DS9 is not coming to Blu-ray.

Do we know this for sure? I thought there had barely been any comments about DS9 at all, except for that re-rendered effects shot from a few years back along with some commentary about how all of the digital files still exist.

The models would still have to be improved a bit for HD though, so I don't think it would be hugely easier than TNG.

To summarise the thread to date, there is no formal word, but some unofficial statements have said "no plans".

Blu Ray as a mainstream format has probably got a few years left, so it could happen still, but will not follow directly on from TNG, or we likely would be aware of a team working on it.

It would definitely be far more expensive than TNG for fewer sales, even before the big CGI battles DS9 used CGI for very mundane stuff like removing clutter.

If I was a gambling man, I'd say never on Blu Ray, maybe a half-assed remaster like Buffy for future streaming.

Yeah I was thinking that maybe they'd skip BD and just create HD masters for Netflix and other similar services. I think by skipping BD they could justify not putting quite as much effort in it because BD is the only real "premium" HD product.

 

[Daveros]

Do we know this for sure?

Fair point, but its not on any schedules that I have seen, and you would think that it would be with S7 of TNG out in the next few weeks.

I would like for them to be released.

Buy second copies of all the Blu-rays you already purchased, gift them to a friend or donate them.

If that would actually work, I would do so. I have my doubts, though. If everyone was to do it you'd create a false sense of sales data, and when the first series of DS9 then sold half as much as TNG they'd pull the plug then and there.

I think buying them once is enough, really.

The thing is, I have specifically bought TNG not justfor the content on the discs, but the future content I was hoping to experience also. I mean, I got what I paid for really, so I am not feeling ripped off, I am just feeling less happy than I would if I could go out and purchase more later.

I just want CBS to know that they have a sale in me for DS9, somehow. Screw it, I'd buy Voyager too.......

 

[USS KG5]

Yeah I was thinking that maybe they'd skip BD and just create HD masters for Netflix and other similar services. I think by skipping BD they could justify not putting quite as much effort in it because BD is the only real "premium" HD product.

Not to mention that Blu Ray may not be dying, but it is having serious chats with it's Doctor. Physical media's future role was debated to death up thread, but most would agree it is on the wane.

But HD is of course going nowhere, so although DS9 on Blu is looking less likely as time goes by, a DS9 HD is possible, though sadly a shitty job like the Buffy one is pretty probable - sigh.

 

[Tomalak]

As long as they go through and remaster all the live action stuff from the negatives, that would be a huge step forward. That's the biggest job, and essentially futureproofs the series with new HD masters. Even if the CGI effects are only upscaled this time, it doesn't mean it won't be done in the future. Obviously a thorough job would be the best outcome, but if it's a half arsed job or nothing, I'll take what I can get.

 

[USS KG5]

As long as they go through and remaster all the live action stuff from the negatives, that would be a huge step forward.

Agreed - apparently though even that hasn't been done with the Buffy "remaster", just upscaling with some horrific cropping to make it widescreen.

 

[DragonQ]

As long as they go through and remaster all the live action stuff from the negatives, that would be a huge step forward.

Agreed - apparently though even that hasn't been done with the Buffy "remaster", just upscaling with some horrific cropping to make it widescreen.

Some scenes have been "uncropped" but that has resulted in errors such as those seen in the PAL 16:9 masters of series 4-7. It's amazing that errors like this would slip past those doing the remastering considering they are intentionally reframing everything.

Fox must've plumped for the cheapest possible option. The work is so shoddy that they should ask for their money back. I've done better work reframing scenes myself using free software and inferior sources ffs.

 

[Admiral Bear]

I can't see DS9 on Blu-ray happening now. Even if work were to start immediately, you're still looking at probably 2020 minimum before the final season was released, by which time Blu-ray as a format will be about 17 years old, which is what DVD is now.

In 2020, DVD may still be loitering around as a format in the same way VHS was in the early 2000s, but all physical media is struggling, and I can't see CBS bothering with a very expensive long term project to be issued on what will be an all but extinct medium by the completion date.

However, if CBS saw any value in remastering DS9 in 4k straight off the bat, that would be a different story, although with the soft lense filters used throughout, there probably wouldn't be much benefit over 1080p.

 

[DS9forever]

The main reason I want DS9 is to get Blu-ray special features; commentaries, deleted scenes, interviews with the actors and the writers etc

 

[Michael]

The main reason I want DS9 is to get Blu-ray special features; commentaries, deleted scenes, interviews with the actors and the writers etc

Really? Don't get me wrong, I want all of that, too. But just to see this series – one of my all-time favorites – in glorious high definition would be worth the admission price alone for me. To tell you the truth, at this point I'd shell out a lot of money just to get a stand-alone release of the pilot or something like that. I'm really bummed that this isn't happening now.

 

[MacLeod]

I can't see DS9 on Blu-ray happening now. Even if work were to start immediately, you're still looking at probably 2020 minimum before the final season was released, by which time Blu-ray as a format will be about 17 years old, which is what DVD is now.

In 2020, DVD may still be loitering around as a format in the same way VHS was in the early 2000s, but all physical media is struggling, and I can't see CBS bothering with a very expensive long term project to be issued on what will be an all but extinct medium by the completion date.

However, if CBS saw any value in remastering DS9 in 4k straight off the bat, that would be a different story, although with the soft lense filters used throughout, there probably wouldn't be much benefit over 1080p.

Well there is this article :--

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=14664

Which says that actually blu-ray saless increased by 10% in the 2nd quarter of this year. True if you look at a monetary value it's less but that's due to the retail price falling.

I suspect that it'll be music CD's that go the way of the Dodo before blu-ray/DVD does. There is a difference between downlading a single song and a HD movie. After all before digital sales you might have to buy an entire album just to get the one song you really wanted.

 

[DragonQ]

Funnily enough, it's CDs and BDs that offer things that cannot usually be found elsewhere (quality primarily). DVDs don't have anything to offer over other formats, yet somehow seem to be "safe". For example, a recent scheme from the largest pay TV provider in the UK (Sky) called allows you to download an HD version of a film to your digibox and you also get a copy in the post. That copy, however, is a DVD, not a BD!

 

[Tomalak]

I suspect physical sales will continue for the time being, primarily aimed at the collectors' market. Mass media sales may well decline, but there will still be value in selling an actual product at a premium to fans - for example, the Beatles catalogue was recently remastered and released in a pricey mono vinyl boxset for the hardcore fans.

I don't really see CDs going anywhere, as they are still superior quality to the majority of digital downloads. Most music I consume I stream from Google Play, but bands of which I suppose I consider myself a fan, I buy the CD.