TUC: Overrated?

[Spock's Barber]

In fact it does not exist in my world. Along with Superman IV The Quest for Peace.

Aaaaaaaagggghhhhhhhhh!!!! One of the most infamous Golan-Globus productions ever unleashed on American theaters!!!

 

[urbandefault]

Questions: Is the TUC bridge set larger than the TMP/TFF set? It looks larger. Was it a redress of the Excelsior bridge?

A brand new bridge set was built from scratch for TFF. I'm not certain how its size compared to that of the set used in TMP-TVH.

However, as was mentioned upthread, the TUC set is actually the same set used in TFF, just redressed. It's redressed quite effectively, in my opinion, because you can believe its an entirely different bridge from the one we saw in TFF. As opposed to, say, the redressing of the Enterprise bridge for the Reliant or the Grissom where they are still obviously the same set. But it is, in fact, the same set, and thus is the same size.

And even though my viewpoint is in the minority, I still prefer the TFF version to the TUC version.

Questions: Is the TUC bridge set larger than the TMP/TFF set? It looks larger. Was it a redress of the Excelsior bridge?

A brand new bridge set was built from scratch for TFF. I'm not certain how its size compared to that of the set used in TMP-TVH.

However, as was mentioned upthread, the TUC set is actually the same set used in TFF, just redressed. It's redressed quite effectively, in my opinion, because you can believe its an entirely different bridge from the one we saw in TFF. As opposed to, say, the redressing of the Enterprise bridge for the Reliant or the Grissom where they are still obviously the same set. But it is, in fact, the same set, and thus is the same size.

And even though my viewpoint is in the minority, I still prefer the TFF version to the TUC version.

I think the TUC bridge is wider. There seems to be more space between the turbolifts.

I compared pics of the TFF bridge and the TUC bridge. The turbolifts are farther apart in TUC. It may be a redress, but it's definitely different.

Edited to add:

I think TUC is underrated by people who expect way too much from a Trek film.

 

[BigJake]

I think TUC is underrated by people who expect way too much from a Trek film.

The soft bigotry of low expectations.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

I can't express how much I despise Indy IV. It's the only film I've ever seen at the cinema where I left the theatre feeling angry.

In fact it does not exist in my world. Along with Superman IV The Quest for Peace.

I thought the Phantom Menace was a far better movie.

Well like I said I wasn't going to be fooled by Lucas again so I waited for the reviews and opinions from friends. When they all pretty much came as "What a stinking pile of dog excrement" I wasn't going to waste another $10 and 2 hours of my life on George Lucas anymore.

Superman IV I've never seen and never will. III was so bad and when I saw commercials for IV even my developing Spidey senses at that young age (When did it come out 88?)I thought "Holy crap that looks like a college film's class final project" and I steered clear. And keep in mind I did and still do LOVE Christopher Reeve as superman. In fact I think he's the reason why I can't and may never enjoy another Superman film, he WAS Superman and played the roll so great I just can't see anyone else doing it. Didn't have that problem with Bond, Moore was Bond when I was growing up and I liked him a lot, but had no problem watching Connery films and like Dalton and Craig very much too (I think Brosnan was a huge let down, looked great for the part, acted like a Vulcan when playing. In fact Die Another Day is the only Bond I haven't seen because I drew the line at what the series had become by then, apparently a lot of other fans did too since it was Brosnan's last and they went back to the more serious and no BS tone of the best Bond films. But haven't ever been able to accept anyone but Reeve as TMOS.

BTW the only films I ever walked out on were Godzilla 98 when they revealed "Godzilla" for the first time, thought the 14 version was decent, hope they improve some things in a sequel, and Batman and Robin. After Scuhmacher made the series into a homoerotic fantasy in Batman Forever and I heard Clooney was taking over I said "No F'n way" But I was out with a group of friends at college who all wanted to go see it at a theater in a mall and I told them I'd just meet them in 2 hrs. They kept telling me to come and one friend offered to pay. I accepted but told them if it's what I expect it'll be, I'm leaving.

Didn't even make it past the air surfing scene in the first sequence of the movie and spent the next two hours at the mall's Barnes and Noble. Left such a bad taste in my mouth that, much to my ever lasting regret, I didn't even consider going to see "Batman Begins" in a theater a film which is now my favorite superhero film of all time. All you "The Dark Knight Fans" can save it. That was a great film too but I believe Batman begins had a better story and was deeper and more rich overall.

So I guess you look at all things considered and how many franchises have basically left on a completely disgusting note the fact that the TOS cast left with on a movie that was good, if not great, in spite of some obstacles, most obvious being their advanced age and weight. TUC should be lauded for doing what so many other film franchises have failed to do in the end, leaving with some dignity and not because it had just become so bad there was no other choice than pulling the plug, which thank god they didn't do after TFF, THAT would have been sad to have that be the last memory of TOS cast.

 

[Smellmet]

That's one of the biggest things the film had going for it, even though everyone knew it was the last one, it still felt exciting, and was very entertaining, whereas at the end of TFF I thought my beloved franchise had become a tired parody of itself. That's no mean feat.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Don't any of these people have lives outside of Starfleet? I think I would have enjoyed seeing our characters return to a life outside of Starfleet rather than them flying into the sun, their fates somewhat uncertain.

That was one thing that I think made Star Trek III work: simply seeing the characters out of uniform, wearing normal clothes. It just gave a more palpable sense that these people do, in fact, have lives. I really wish that idea could have continued. Instead, we got nothing but uniforms, ship duty, and endless careers up until the end.

 

[A beaker full of death]

That was one thing that I think made Star Trek III work: simply seeing the characters out of uniform, wearing normal clothes. It just gave a more palpable sense that these people do, in fact, have lives. I really wish that idea could have continued. Instead, we got nothing but uniforms, ship duty, and endless careers up until the end.

I think people probably don't really get that sense any more, but seeing them in civvies while on the bridge operating the ship was something really special. It just gave it sort of an A-Team feel, like when Clark Kent does something super.

 

[RandyS]

Yeah, me too.

Same here, although I still wish they'd retained the Star Trek V bridge. the one in VI was too drab and military looking.

If the TUC bridge is drab, what is the TMP bridge?

Just as drab.

 

[eyeresist]

6. Spock's mind rape of Valeris remains my single most disliked scene in all of Trek. I understand his need for information but the way he forcefully restrains Valeris and extracts information from her is incredibly unpleasant. The fact that everyone stands there and watches makes it doubly repulsive. I would have preferred if Spock requested an empty room and the whole scene happened off-camera.

Obviously if fans keep calling it rape it seems especially objectionable, but it's not an actual rape. Just think of it as the psychic equivalent of going through her diary.

 

[JediKnightButler]

I always liked the film and felt that it was an excellent send-off for the original crew, not to mention a vast improvement over TFF. It had some parts that were a bit "off" but, for the most part, it was a good movie. For me, it was one of the best after the 2-4 trilogy.

 

[RoJoHen]

Don't any of these people have lives outside of Starfleet? I think I would have enjoyed seeing our characters return to a life outside of Starfleet rather than them flying into the sun, their fates somewhat uncertain.

That was one thing that I think made Star Trek III work: simply seeing the characters out of uniform, wearing normal clothes. It just gave a more palpable sense that these people do, in fact, have lives. I really wish that idea could have continued. Instead, we got nothing but uniforms, ship duty, and endless careers up until the end.

This is actually one of my favorite things about TFF. Seeing Kirk on the bridge wearing his "Go Climb a Rock!" T-shirt was such a bizarre little moment, but it made me smile.

I've grown to really dislike the way Star Trek has portrayed civilian clothing over the years. It was nice to see people in the future wearing jeans and T-shirts.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I didn't care too much for Kirk in Jeans. Felt abit like Shatner had wandered on set from some TV movie of the week

 

[Franklin]

Don't any of these people have lives outside of Starfleet? I think I would have enjoyed seeing our characters return to a life outside of Starfleet rather than them flying into the sun, their fates somewhat uncertain.

That was one thing that I think made Star Trek III work: simply seeing the characters out of uniform, wearing normal clothes. It just gave a more palpable sense that these people do, in fact, have lives. I really wish that idea could have continued. Instead, we got nothing but uniforms, ship duty, and endless careers up until the end.

This is actually one of my favorite things about TFF. Seeing Kirk on the bridge wearing his "Go Climb a Rock!" T-shirt was such a bizarre little moment, but it made me smile.

I've grown to really dislike the way Star Trek has portrayed civilian clothing over the years. It was nice to see people in the future wearing jeans and T-shirts.

Me too. The flannel shirt and jeans in TFF were anachronistic, but still not as bad or silly as the civvies Kirk was wearing at the start of TSFS, as well as most of the civvies the others had on. Ugh.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

One thing about TUC that's bugged me as I've gotten older is how Meyer not once, not twice, but THREE times took things that originated on earth and made them sound like they came from somewhere else.

The first and most obvious is the Klingon use of Shakespeare. I find it hard to believe that an extremely closed and repressive society would be allowing its citizens, let alone its military leaders openly read from one of its primary enemy's best known authors. It would be like the Red Army officers reading and quoting passages from "Mein Kampf" during WWII. But not only do they know Shakespeare, but they also seem to think that he's Klingon!!!!! And not once does a member of the Enterprise bother to say "Uh....he was from Earth you know." It's as if there was some event that happened that wiped clean the memories and storage data of everything and everybody in the universe so the Klingons and apparently everyone else just thought "Well guess this Shakespeare guy was Klingon."
And how did they get copies of Shakespeare in the first place? Did some black market trader just happen to have hundreds of thousands of extra copies of his complete works lying around and took them to the Klingon home world on one of his trips and said "Here you guys go, thought you'd like to check this out" And honestly WTF would Klingons care about some author who lived on their enemy's homeworld 700 years ago. Klingons at that point seemed pretty much against anything that wasn't Klingon, but made an exception for old William...Please. Yeah I know it was so Chris Plummer could be all dramatic and dark and try to copy Khan and the Moby Dick theme in TWOK, but it just came off as hammy and contrived.

Second was Spock's "Only Nixon could go to China" Hell most Americans don't even get the point of the comment anymore today. Yet were supposed to believe that the Vulcans were so into Earth history they knew all about Richard Nixon being a main player in the McCarthy Red Scare era, yet ironically he visited the most populus Communist country on earth as President to thaw relations between China and the US. Not only that Vulcans apparently place such importance on that event that they made it a PROVERB!!!!

Finally Spock's like about an "ancestor" of his saying "Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable must be the solution." For those who don't know that quote was made famous by Sherlock Holmes. Holmes was of course fictional (Or maybe he wasn't to people in the 23rd, hell Shakespeare is Klingon after all). So Spock is implying he is related to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, I know he's half human so it's possible. But again come on.....Just say "You know Sherlock Holmes said blah blah blah......"

Of course this was Meyer's fine hand and his self indulgent tripe for his love of drama (He did do a Sherlock Holmes film before TWOK after all) and he had no Harve Bennett to reign him this time, but it just makes it look like earth has no history of it's own and everyone in the 23rd century is too stupid to understand this.

At least Kirk got it right when Chang said we need breathing room and Kirk replied "Earth, Hitler 1938". Although technically it was "Living room or space" from the term "Lebensraum".

 

[BillJ]

Of course this was Meyer's fine hand and his self indulgent tripe for his love of drama (He did do a Sherlock Holmes film before TWOK after all) and he had no Harve Bennett to reign him this time, but it just makes it look like earth has no history of it's own and everyone in the 23rd century is too stupid to understand this.

I think your points are a gross misreading of the film, honestly.

Shakespeare in the original Klingon could simply mean the first translations of the work. Which could be a century or more old at that point.

There are no Vulcans who study Earth history? Spock says it is a Vulcan proverb, not that the event that spawned it happened on Vulcan.

The relative in question could've actually been Sir Author Conan Doyle who wrote the Sherlock Holmes stories. He is human and Spock is half-human. So the possibility exists that he is a distant relative.

I guess it's true that one can come away with any meaning they chose when watching or reading something.

 

[MacLeod]

9. The last ten minutes of the movie, from the resolution at Khitomer to the signatures at the end does nothing for me. Yes, they've saved the universe one more time but I would have loved to see them return to Starfleet as heroes rather than be told to return to be decommissioned. Don't any of these people have lives outside of Starfleet? I think I would have enjoyed seeing our characters return to a life outside of Starfleet rather than them flying into the sun, their fates somewhat uncertain.

Riding off into the sunset is a trope

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RidingIntoTheSunset


It's a way of saying this is the end of the story and for the TOS crew it was the end of their story. As it was thier final film.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I really only took those quirks to be more gags. Yeah, kind of weird, but the audiences I saw the film with laughed at the Nixon and Shakespeare cracks. The Sherlock Holmes reference was lost for the most part. Or ignored.

Like I said upthread somewhere, there are more gags in this film than TFF. The Star Trek movies were lightweight at this point, it was simply lacking a laugh track. Granted, it made the assassination all the more shocking, but Scotty bursting his way through the door to shoot the final Klingon assassin at the conference always got laughs. It was difficult for the cast to be taken seriously. Maybe their age made Paramount skittish about keeping them anything less. But I missed the feel of the first three films.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Of course this was Meyer's fine hand and his self indulgent tripe for his love of drama (He did do a Sherlock Holmes film before TWOK after all) and he had no Harve Bennett to reign him this time, but it just makes it look like earth has no history of it's own and everyone in the 23rd century is too stupid to understand this.

I think your points are a gross misreading of the film, honestly.

Shakespeare in the original Klingon could simply mean the first translations of the work. Which could be a century or more old at that point.

There are no Vulcans who study Earth history? Spock says it is a Vulcan proverb, not that the event that spawned it happened on Vulcan.

The relative in question could've actually been Sir Author Conan Doyle who wrote the Sherlock Holmes stories. He is human and Spock is half-human. So the possibility exists that he is a distant relative.

I guess it's true that one can come away with any meaning they chose when watching or reading something.

Well I respect your point of view but have to disagree. When something is said to be read in its "original" language it means the language the author wrote it in. I've never heard anyone say you've never read Tolstoy until you've read in it's original English, Japanese, French....etc. I have heard you've never read it until you've read it in Russian, the country it came from. So it implies to me that for some reason or another when they say "original" Klingon they mean the works and its author are Klingon and not just some first edition translated from English.

Yeah I'm sure Vulcans study Earth history but honestly the Red Scare, Nixon going to China thing would be a rather obscure thing to study as opposed to events like WWII WWI the Atomic Bomb, The black plague, the crusades etc.......Like I said most Americans alive today don't even get the meaning of the Nixon/China phrase. It just seems like 300 years later a completely different planet would have such a firm grasp on those, rather minor events compared to Earth history, that it would be common knowledge, let alone a vulcan proverb.

And yes technically Spock could be related to Conan Doyle, lottery type odds but possible, but it would have just been better to say a famous earth detective once said............instead of some improbable possibility of an "Ancestor of his".

Just my take. Meyer wanted to stick all these things in there and for some reason make them sound like they weren't originated on earth....don't know why, but just kind of ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[MacLeod]

It is hard to say what historians in 300 years will consider the key events of second half of the twentith centruy. Nixon's visit to China was aimed in part at ending the rather frsoty relations the USA & China had at that time, surely relevant to the themeof TUC i.e ending the frosty relationship between the UFP and KE.

We don't have to take everything said as being literal, you can use metaphor to get your point accross.

 

[Captrek]

The first and most obvious is the Klingon use of Shakespeare. I find it hard to believe that an extremely closed and repressive society would be allowing its citizens, let alone its military leaders openly read from one of its primary enemy's best known authors. It would be like the Red Army officers reading and quoting passages from "Mein Kampf" during WWII.

Funny you should draw that particular analogy. Here's Nicholas Meyer from the TUC commentary track:

When he says, Chang, that you have never heard Shakespeare until you have heard him in the original Klingon, he is paraphrasing the Germans, who during or just before World War II claimed Shakespeare as originally one of their own, and said that you have never heard Shakespeare until you have heard him in the original German.

Germans didn't actually claim that Shakespeare was German or wrote in German, but they do have a love for Shakespeare that is perhaps as strong as Britain's, and consider themselves to be the greatest nation of Shakespeare scholars. And I don't think the Allies stopped listening to Bach, Beethoven and Wagner because of the war. Britain and Germany still admired each others' culture, even when they were at war.